|
|
Post by Doofer on Nov 23, 2012 20:34:20 GMT
There have been a number of instances brought to our attention recently of Club Organisers being held accountable for accidents at runs or events. I know we have had this discussion in the past and I do not wish to go over old ground. Quite simply when it comes to the crunch if a run attendee has an accident and chooses to make an attempt to claim through the club then the Club and Run organisers would be held accountable and would be responsible for any costs to defend themselves in court if required On this basis we need to take measures to protect ourselves from any potential legal action, to do this we have two options 1) We as a club get insurance which will require a contribution from the membership. 2) We cease to organise and advertise runs and events through the club or any of its associated internet representation (even surreptitiously) and effectively become an internet only club. Information on the insurance BMF Club insurance does seem to be the best way to go with this, however I appreciate this may not be popular with all members The basic requirements are that the club subscribes to BMF Club membership and any club member who chooses to contribute towards this will get BMF affiliated membership and will have access to various discounts and benefits as detailed in the BMF Club Membership package (I’ll cover these shortly) Club Organisers/Management would be required to be affiliated members through the club as would any regular member who wishes to organise a run or even through the club or in the clubs name. Benefits for affiliated BMF members • Discounted entry to all BMF shows • Subscription to BMF Press Releases by email • Access to Riderspace (The BMF website) • Discounted insurance (you will need to quote your BMF membership number in most cases) • Travel Insurance • Express by Holiday Inn accommodation discount (subject to availability) • Up to 25% off RAC membership (even existing membership) • Savings through a wide variety of tour operators, details can be found at www.bmf.co.uk• Political Representation in UK and Europe (for more info take a look at Club Benefits • Civil Liability Protection • Opportunity to represent ourselves at National and One-Make Forum meetings and regional BMF meetings • Exhibitor space at BMF Shows including a number of exhibitor passes • A number of copies of ‘Motorcycle Rider’ BMF magazine Cost We do not all have to sign up for BMF membership, however as mentioned above Club management and Run/Event Organisers will be requires to do so to validate the insurance cover for the run/event. I will need to get a picture of how many member would be prepared to commit to membership before I can give an exact figure, however this will be no more than £9 per member, per annum Insurance runs from 1st Jan – 31st December as does Club Membership and would be renewable each year. If you do not wish to purchase membership that is fine, site access and attendance to runs will NOT be restricted to members only. Doof |
|
|
|
Post by m40man on Nov 23, 2012 20:44:37 GMT
I find I can't vote because there is no option to leave as-is.
As there is no requirement to carry third-party insurance, this seems an oversight to me.
I believe this statement is factually inaccurate: "Quite simply when it comes to the crunch if a run attendee has an accident and chooses to make an attempt to claim through the club then the Club and Run organisers would be held accountable and would be responsible for any costs to defend themselves in court if required"
|
|
|
|
Post by Fiasco on Nov 23, 2012 21:21:34 GMT
Interesting subject, think I was well dosed up with morphine last time this was seriously discussed.
Can one claim against a run leader retrospectively ? Could do with some financial help with the new kitchen ;D
Wondering if MAG offer similar protection ?
Which side of the fence would Rider Support sit on ? I guess the side of the claimee as I suspect they are no win no fee.
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by teejayexc on Nov 23, 2012 21:22:42 GMT
I find I can't vote because there is no option to leave as-is. As there is no requirement to carry third-party insurance, this seems an oversight to me. I believe this statement is factually inaccurate: "Quite simply when it comes to the crunch if a run attendee has an accident and chooses to make an attempt to claim through the club then the Club and Run organisers would be held accountable and would be responsible for any costs to defend themselves in court if required"Ditto. Hypothetical question, could the run organiser sue the club if they happen to have an incident? This could be very lucrative. |
|
|
|
Post by Doofer on Nov 23, 2012 21:31:24 GMT
Hypothetical question, could the run organiser sue the club if they happen to have an incident? This could be very lucrative. Hypothetical question, could the club management sue the club in the event of an accident? Answer - Well my insurance company asked me if I wanted to, I declined as it was not the club or the run organisers fault and went on to successfully sue the person who was responsible. I'm no lawyer, nor am I rich, I am in no position to pay for legal representation if someone crashes their bike on a group associated run (either own fault or other party fault) regardless of whether those costs would be reimbursed if found in favour of the club or not, there for there is no option to leave as is. Doof |
|
|
|
Post by Pops on Nov 23, 2012 21:36:19 GMT
Surely a third alternative could be to get run attendee's sign some sort of waiver completely absolving/signing their rights away to take legal proceedings against club/organisers. Only attendee's willing to do so would be eligible/invited to compete in organised club runs.
Only if an organiser was to cause anyone directly to have an accident would be held legally responsible as would be the case anyway of anyone causing an accident.
|
|
|
|
Post by teejayexc on Nov 23, 2012 21:39:23 GMT
Ok, serious head on.... If the club goes down the road of compelling run organisers to have insurance, I for one will no longer organise/participate in any such run. I attend/organise a run for the enjoyment and friendship I know I will get from it, and quite frankly I would be not wish to be associated with any forum dictating such terms. No vote....no option for above.  |
|
|
|
Post by teejayexc on Nov 23, 2012 21:43:57 GMT
Hypothetical question, could the club management sue the club in the event of an accident? Answer - Well my insurance company asked me if I wanted to, I declined as it was not the club or the run organisers fault and went on to successfully sue the person who was responsible. So why is it not an option for no change then? How many incidents on runs could be laid at the door of the club/ run organiser? |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2012 21:51:31 GMT
Ok, serious head on.... If the club goes down the road of compelling run organisers to have insurance, I for one will no longer organise/participate in any such run. I attend/organise a run for the enjoyment and friendship I know I will get from it, and quite frankly I would be not wish to be associated with any forum dictating such terms. No vote....no option for above. Ditto. Anyway, we have our own laws up here. |
|
|
|
Post by bobh on Nov 23, 2012 21:59:43 GMT
There have been a number of instances brought to our attention recently of Club Organisers being held accountable for accidents at runs or events. I am aware of a couple of cases where people on a run have been prosecuted (by the police) for speeding or causing an accident. That's fair enough, if people are breaking the law and get caught. But this insurance would not, and indeed should not, help in such circumstances. I haven't led any YDC runs, though I've been on a few. However, I have led several for my local IAM group, and there the situation is managed by using a standard form of briefing for the run leader which emphasises that everyone is riding for themselves, at their own risk. I think I've heard something similar at YDC runs, but can't be certain. On IAM runs we sometimes get non-member friends along, and they are asked to sign a disclaimer. I don't read all the motorcycle press avidly, but I have to confess I'm not familiar with any instances where run leaders and/or club officials have been sued in the civil courts. So I would find it very helpful to have a few pointers to such cases, so as to understand the potential issues, before voting. Many thanks - Bob H |
|
|
|
Post by Doofer on Nov 23, 2012 22:05:06 GMT
It's not about whether blame can be laid at our door
It's about whether we are in a sufficiently financially affluent position to cover the costs of legal representation in the event of someone choosing to lay blame at our door, in a society of increasing compensation culture we are lucky to have gotten this far without someone trying it.
If it were a simple case of buy insurance and the club is covered I would get it anyway and ask if anyone were willing to make a voluntary contribution, but I have looked at the details and they are quite clear, run organisers must be affiliated members or the insurance is invalidated.
MAG do not offer club insurance, I'm not exactly thrilled at the idea of BMF myself, but I have been talking with the manager of another, local, club I'm involved with about alternatives and quite simply there aren't any. The local club I attend have had BMF membership for 18months, they don't control how the club is run, or even have any input, membership was bought purely for insurance and anyone who has paid the membership can take advantage of the discounts on offer if they choose to, membership is voluntary, the only real difference is that as the club is local they have a run co-ordinator who is responsible for making sure all runs are risk assessed and runs are led by one of the affiliated members, usually one of the club management team. This isn't so easily done on such a widespread group and to be fair, if you put all the effort into organising a run would you want someone else to lead it for you?
There is a third option but it is not one I want to put on the table at this time, I appreciate that this is not a popular discussion, but I need to get a picture of general consensus one way or the other first.
Doof
|
|
|
|
Post by cam7777 on Nov 23, 2012 22:23:54 GMT
Ok, serious head on.... If the club goes down the road of compelling run organisers to have insurance, I for one will no longer organise/participate in any such run. I attend/organise a run for the enjoyment and friendship I know I will get from it, and quite frankly I would be not wish to be associated with any forum dictating such terms. No vote....no option for above. My thoughts too. I would have to do the 'Jim' run system....I'll say that i am coming and then pull out at the last minute  |
|
|
|
Post by tomcat on Nov 23, 2012 22:30:38 GMT
Doofer, your initial post identifies and numbers 2 options. The poll however changes tack and only offers a BMF affiliation option as opposed to the posted, "Obtain a club insurance."
Has the cost of such a stand alone policy been explored? If so. at what cost?
A small boat angling club I belonged to a few years ago obtained a similar cover policy for club events, the cost was £24 per annum, it even covered third party claims against the club and committee of £3,000,000.
|
|
|
|
Post by teejayexc on Nov 23, 2012 22:38:55 GMT
.......I'll say that i am coming and then pull out at the last minute Heard summats similar whilst staying in Moffat  |
|
|
|
Post by Doofer on Nov 23, 2012 22:46:06 GMT
Hi Tomcat,
Was that a members only club?
Did members have to complete any paperwork or pay an annual fee?
I can't get insurance for a club that has potentially 2000 members (of which probably about 70 -80 are active) without some realistic figures.
The only option available for a club which runs the way we do appears to be BMF and yes, I have looked for alternatives, however if anyone can point me in the direction of a suitable alternative source of insurance please feel free to do so to allow me to investigate further.
Doof
|
|
|
|
Post by tomcat on Nov 23, 2012 23:08:23 GMT
Doofer.
In response.
1. Yes.
2. Yes and yes.
I can certainly see a problem with a potential 2000 membership though. Though no longer a member of the angling club, I'll try and do some digging to identify who we obtained cover through. A starting point could be identifying who provides the BMF cover and approaching them directly.
|
|
|
|
Post by ContourMac on Nov 23, 2012 23:22:05 GMT
Apart from YDC I am also a member of the Triumph Owners Club, Honda Owners Club and Vintage Japanese Owners Club. All of these clubs are fully insured for their events.
I have also discovered that the VJMC is at present being sued for £4.5million by the family of one of its members for very serious injuries incurred at one of its events. As our branch secretary explained it to me it seems that as his accident did not directly involve a 3rd party and, as the rider is now in need of constant care, his dependants, through neccessity, have engaged a solicitor to try to secure whatever compensation is possible. They have targeted the event organisers. This case is 2 years old and still going on. Whatever the outcome it is costing plenty just to fight the claim.
None of the admin of this site have the financial means to fight a legal action so insurance is the only sensible option. Most of us have it on our bikes, cars, houses, health and mortgages so why object to this?
Trev has stated that he will not host or attend a run if we insist on insurance. On the other hand Al advised me he stopped hosting the Jock run because he was worried about not being covered. It is a very difficult subject which will never get full concensus but burying our heads in the sand and pretending it does not exist is not the answer.
A waiver might be an option but to make sure it is a legally binding document and is absolutely watertight without any possibility of any loopholes it would have to be drafted by a solicitor at a much greater cost than the insurance it would possibly replace. It would then would have to be issued to, and signed by, every participant on the run.
As Jen has stated - If there is even the slightest chance of any run host or admin being exposed to the risk of being sued then it is only right to ensure that they are protected.
|
|
|
|
Post by Reaper on Nov 23, 2012 23:23:32 GMT
I know this is a little different but Dave and myself are members of 2 different flying clubs even though one is very informal like this, with both ALL members have to have BMA insurance before they are allowed to fly.
Now at the informal indoor Tuesday night club we allow flying at your own risk but 1st you must show your insurance, the reason we do this is that the indoor stuff is not going to kill you if hit by it and we are not a club as here.
The other club it out door stuff and 50% of what we fly would easily kill you if hit by it, people have lost fingers just starting motors an gone to hospital for much worse.
Now some thing similar came up with that club and it was found that although we all had individual insurance, any member that wanted to could sue the club committee for any type of accident that happened while attending/flying at the clubs sight. So the committee who them selves don`t fly (it`s an age thing) had to go down the rout of being affiliated to the BMA which is the equivalent of the BMF and there fore covered in any eventuality.
We may have to do the same at the Tuesday nite club/group of friends, just to cover our selves in this sue because you can world we now live in.
If £9 would cover me as a run organiser against a legal bill or worse then £9 is what I would pay, it costs me over 3 times that for my BMA insurance and I don`t begrudge that.
Also as I told Jen the other day I have not put a run on this year for a few reasons but one being that I too was worried about what could happen and if I was covered.
Oh and knowing what it is, I don`t want to see option 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by teejayexc on Nov 23, 2012 23:45:25 GMT
I know this is a little different but Dave and myself are members of 2 different flying clubs even though one is very informal like this, with both ALL members have to have BMA insurance before they are allowed to fly. Now at the informal indoor Tuesday night club we allow flying at your own risk but 1st you must show your insurance, the reason we do this is that the indoor stuff is not going to kill you if hit by it and we are not a club as here. The other club it out door stuff and 50% of what we fly would easily kill you if hit by it, people have lost fingers just starting motors an gone to hospital for much worse. Now some thing similar came up with that club and it was found that although we all had individual insurance, any member that wanted to could sue the club committee for any type of accident that happened while attending/flying at the clubs sight. So the committee who them selves don`t fly (it`s an age thing) had to go down the rout of being affiliated to the BMA which is the equivalent of the BMF and there fore covered in any eventuality. We may have to do the same at the Tuesday nite club/group of friends, just to cover our selves in this sue because you can world we now live in. If £9 would cover me as a run organiser against a legal bill or worse then £9 is what I would pay, it costs me over 3 times that for my BMA insurance and I don`t begrudge that. Also as I told Jen the other day I have not put a run on this year for a few reasons but one being that I too was worried about what could happen and if I was covered. Oh and knowing what it is, I don`t want to see option 3. Totally irrelavant post...we're not flying/riding at the clubs 'site'. As a fully paid up member of the road tax/insurance/mot club, I am free to ride/associate/disassociate with who the 'ell I please on public roads, and no friggin' no win no fee lawyer is gonna make me think otherwise. |
|
|
|
Post by General Gman on Nov 24, 2012 0:35:46 GMT
I know this is a little different but Dave and myself are members of 2 different flying clubs even though one is very informal like this, with both ALL members have to have BMA insurance before they are allowed to fly. Now at the informal indoor Tuesday night club we allow flying at your own risk but 1st you must show your insurance, the reason we do this is that the indoor stuff is not going to kill you if hit by it and we are not a club as here. The other club it out door stuff and 50% of what we fly would easily kill you if hit by it, people have lost fingers just starting motors an gone to hospital for much worse. Now some thing similar came up with that club and it was found that although we all had individual insurance, any member that wanted to could sue the club committee for any type of accident that happened while attending/flying at the clubs sight. So the committee who them selves don`t fly (it`s an age thing) had to go down the rout of being affiliated to the BMA which is the equivalent of the BMF and there fore covered in any eventuality. We may have to do the same at the Tuesday nite club/group of friends, just to cover our selves in this sue because you can world we now live in. If £9 would cover me as a run organiser against a legal bill or worse then £9 is what I would pay, it costs me over 3 times that for my BMA insurance and I don`t begrudge that. Also as I told Jen the other day I have not put a run on this year for a few reasons but one being that I too was worried about what could happen and if I was covered. Oh and knowing what it is, I don`t want to see option 3. Totally irrelavant post...we're not flying/riding at the clubs 'site'. As a fully paid up member of the road tax/insurance/mot club, I am free to ride/associate/disassociate with who the 'ell I please on public roads, and no friggin' no win no fee lawyer is gonna make me think otherwise. +1million |
|
|
|
Post by neilmud Lord Protector on Nov 24, 2012 1:58:13 GMT
I think that anyone who tries to sue for compensation for an accident on a "club" run should lose for being a complete ar$e but as the law would or could take another view if the BMF insurance would cover club runs then it is probably the best answer.
Maybe a "voluntary" collection could be made at runs to cover club expenses & some of this to go to pay insurance & any surplus to club charity.
Alternatively "I'm going to be at (this place) at (sometime) on (this date) then I'd going out for a ride any one like to meet me there"
No mention of an organised run just a meet & what happens after that is up to whoever arrives.
Neil
|
|
|
|
Post by johnthebowman on Nov 24, 2012 7:16:41 GMT
Are we a Club legally. We don't have an annual membership fee or any paperwork to say or proove that anyone is or is not a member and I like it like that  So I would guess that for someone to successfully sue the management of this site they would have to prove in court that something they read on the internet caused injury elsewhere  I would have thought, an "event" Is quite different from a run. They usually take place on rented land and requires certain public liability insurance. So Doofer, if I could quote your first sentence on this thread." There have been a number of instances brought to our attention recently of Club Organisers being held accountable for accidents at runs or events."Can you give an example of where a run organizer has been sued or even held accountable, legally for a road accident on a run rather than the organizer of an event? Perhaps if site management was to organize something like the Chicken Run below they might just be in trouble for inciting terrorism or something but I'm no lawyer. THE CHICKEN RUN Meet junc 14 M1 at 1030 April 1st 2013 Ride on the wrong side of the road up the M1 as far as junc 25 Last one to Junc 25 is a sissy and so are those that never made it ;D But management would not organize something like the above and if they did I cant think of anyone here stupid enough to try it! |
|
|
|
Post by Reaper on Nov 24, 2012 7:46:18 GMT
I know this is a little different but Dave and myself are members of 2 different flying clubs even though one is very informal like this, with both ALL members have to have BMA insurance before they are allowed to fly. Now at the informal indoor Tuesday night club we allow flying at your own risk but 1st you must show your insurance, the reason we do this is that the indoor stuff is not going to kill you if hit by it and we are not a club as here. The other club it out door stuff and 50% of what we fly would easily kill you if hit by it, people have lost fingers just starting motors an gone to hospital for much worse. Now some thing similar came up with that club and it was found that although we all had individual insurance, any member that wanted to could sue the club committee for any type of accident that happened while attending/flying at the clubs sight. So the committee who them selves don`t fly (it`s an age thing) had to go down the rout of being affiliated to the BMA which is the equivalent of the BMF and there fore covered in any eventuality. We may have to do the same at the Tuesday nite club/group of friends, just to cover our selves in this sue because you can world we now live in. If £9 would cover me as a run organiser against a legal bill or worse then £9 is what I would pay, it costs me over 3 times that for my BMA insurance and I don`t begrudge that. Also as I told Jen the other day I have not put a run on this year for a few reasons but one being that I too was worried about what could happen and if I was covered. Oh and knowing what it is, I don`t want to see option 3. Totally irrelavant post...we're not flying/riding at the clubs 'site'. As a fully paid up member of the road tax/insurance/mot club, I am free to ride/associate/disassociate with who the 'ell I please on public roads, and no friggin' no win no fee lawyer is gonna make me think otherwise. You missed the point, that it was seen that those at the top and those organising an event, were ever it was were in the firing line. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2012 8:21:24 GMT
Obviously an unpleasant decision will have to be made.
For many people the appeal of this forum is that many members meet and go for a run on a regular basis. Restriction of that will change this forum IMHO. Though, it will always change in any case.
You missed the option of having an annual fee for membership which includes insurance cover.
Or
Stop all runs.
In the Poll.
|
|
|
|
Post by ContourMac on Nov 24, 2012 8:54:51 GMT
Are we a Club legally. We don't have an annual membership fee or any paperwork to say or proove that anyone is or is not a member and I like it like that So I would guess that for someone to successfully sue the management of this site they would have to prove in court that something they read on the internet caused injury elsewhere I would have thought, an "event" Is quite different from a run. They usually take place on rented land and requires certain public liability insurance. So Doofer, if I could quote your first sentence on this thread." There have been a number of instances brought to our attention recently of Club Organisers being held accountable for accidents at runs or events."Can you give an example of where a run organizer has been sued or even held accountable, legally for a road accident on a run rather than the organizer of an event? Perhaps if site management was to organize something like the Chicken Run below they might just be in trouble for inciting terrorism or something but I'm no lawyer. THE CHICKEN RUN Meet junc 14 M1 at 1030 April 1st 2013 Ride on the wrong side of the road up the M1 as far as junc 25 Last one to Junc 25 is a sissy and so are those that never made it ;D But management would not organize something like the above and if they did I cant think of anyone here stupid enough to try it! The emphasis is not whether or not the run organiser and club admin is actually liable but could there be sufficent evidence following an accident where a no win no fee solicitor feels that there are grounds to make a claim. You ask if we are legally a club: We are called the Yamaha Diversion Club We have a website We sell club merchandise On the opening page we state that we are a club 3 times On the downloadable Clubcards we invite people to "join a free internet owners club" We list all our current members We (did) list the managers and admin Is it a club event or just a few friends on a get together? On the opening page we invite people to "join us on a club run sometime" We have 2 subfolders on the site dedicated to these runs We state on the calendar "Yamaha Diversion Club Run Dates" Our Clubcard states "various runs and meets are organised throughout the UK" We name a Run Organiser for each event We have a Run Coordinator We give a safety briefing We sometimes sell keyrings and T shirts with the YDC logo and the event name. I think with regard to the above that even a moderate lawyer could make a case claiming we are a club, it was an organised event and therefore the organisers could be held responsible for injuries obtained. It is not the proving of a possible claim we are worried about. It is the cost of fighting it. This alone can cost many thousands of pounds. I know having had to defend myself in a negligence case following a death when I was completely innocent! £9 for security, piece of mind and to cover our backsides. I pay more than that to cover my cat! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by teejayexc on Nov 24, 2012 9:29:44 GMT
Totally irrelavant post...we're not flying/riding at the clubs 'site'. As a fully paid up member of the road tax/insurance/mot club, I am free to ride/associate/disassociate with who the 'ell I please on public roads, and no friggin' no win no fee lawyer is gonna make me think otherwise. You missed the point, that it was seen that those at the top and those organising an event, were ever it was were in the firing line. And you, deliberately, missed my point. The runs are on public roads and not privately owned sites, where conceivably, the organiser could be held responsible. The last time I looked my bike insurance doesn't have a disclaimer for meeting up with like minded people and riding on public roads. Oh and Mac, what you do in your private live is up to you, but *covering* your cat? |
|
|
|
Post by HRHpenfold on Nov 24, 2012 9:36:28 GMT
Are we a Club legally. We don't have an annual membership fee or any paperwork to say or proove that anyone is or is not a member and I like it like that So I would guess that for someone to successfully sue the management of this site they would have to prove in court that something they read on the internet caused injury elsewhere I would have thought, an "event" Is quite different from a run. They usually take place on rented land and requires certain public liability insurance. So Doofer, if I could quote your first sentence on this thread." There have been a number of instances brought to our attention recently of Club Organisers being held accountable for accidents at runs or events."Can you give an example of where a run organizer has been sued or even held accountable, legally for a road accident on a run rather than the organizer of an event? Perhaps if site management was to organize something like the Chicken Run below they might just be in trouble for inciting terrorism or something but I'm no lawyer. THE CHICKEN RUN Meet junc 14 M1 at 1030 April 1st 2013 Ride on the wrong side of the road up the M1 as far as junc 25 Last one to Junc 25 is a sissy and so are those that never made it ;D But management would not organize something like the above and if they did I cant think of anyone here stupid enough to try it! The emphasis is not whether or not the run organiser and club admin is actually liable but could there be sufficent evidence following an accident where a no win no fee solicitor feels that there are grounds to make a claim. You ask if we are legally a club: We are called the Yamaha Diversion Club We have a website We sell club merchandise On the opening page we state that we are a club 3 times On the downloadable Clubcards we invite people to "join a free internet owners club" We list all our current members We (did) list the managers and admin Is it a club event or just a few friends on a get together? On the opening page we invite people to "join us on a club run sometime" We have 2 subfolders on the site dedicated to these runs We state on the calendar "Yamaha Diversion Club Run Dates" Our Clubcard states "various runs and meets are organised throughout the UK" We name a Run Organiser for each event We have a Run Coordinator We give a safety briefing We sometimes sell keyrings and T shirts with the YDC logo and the event name. I think with regard to the above that even a moderate lawyer could make a case claiming we are a club, it was an organised event and therefore the organisers could be held responsible for injuries obtained. It is not the proving of a possible claim we are worried about. It is the cost of fighting it. This alone can cost many thousands of pounds. I know having had to defend myself in a negligence case following a death when I was completely innocent! £9 for security, piece of mind and to cover our backsides. I pay more than that to cover my cat! ;D All those things could easily be changed, we could easily replace "club" with "gang, raiders, angels" I voted not to join the BMF, but could be persuaded to change my mind, especially if we get our own badge and colours hells angel style ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Pops on Nov 24, 2012 10:21:33 GMT
A couple of things I don't understand here. [/s] when I buy a new bike does my insurance not cover me for riding on roads allbeit with anyone else or not, no stipulation in insurance T&C's/ certificate about riding with others voids my insurance ] [£9, is this amount assuming all 2000 members buy it] [even if insurance at £9 taken up surely run organisers still face being pursued in court, resulting in not many runs likely to be organised then] [what happens when you decide to go to a BMF show, IOM TT's, Circuit day, run out to Devils bridge etc. etc. could these be deemed as a mass meeting] [while out and about what happens if you accidentally bump into meet other riders, is your insurance voided] [rules already exist to protect riders, have to wear the right gear, bike has to be covered by MOT, rider has to be covered with insurance, rider has to ride in a responsible way, "Regardless" who is riding along with rider] [Do insurance companies not insure the individual, Regardless if out by oneself or with friends, never been asked about that on any insurance application, perhaps I should ask about that next time I apply] [/ul] might just be me getting paranoid (or just waffling) but I have to ask myself if I am going off the idea of just having a bike for enjoyment and to enjoy an occasional run out with friends or family. ps Still want Twinny though. |
|
|
|
Post by m40man on Nov 24, 2012 10:29:06 GMT
It might be worth chancing your luck & trying to sue forum moderators / admin or the guy who invited you out for a ride, if you know they have insurance to cover it. (As opposed to whoever was actually responsible - eg, the driver / rider who caused you a problem, the local authority if a road condition problem, etc)
Bit of a waste of time if they aren't insured - you & your lawyer won't get any money anyway. (Well, your lawyer might get some legal aid if you qualify but that's tricky/unlikely in civil cases.) Go for the people who have insurance - that's where the money is.
Discuss .......
|
|
|
|
Post by tomcat on Nov 24, 2012 12:08:42 GMT
Just to address Pops dilemma.
Nobody is suggesting your own personal motorcycle insurance doesn't cover you when attending a club run or similar.
However you have to view the bigger picture. You and I may have comprehensive insurance cover, this doesn't apply to all though. Imagine a younger member who because of youth (he said enviously) can only afford third party insurance. If that member has an accident on a run and suffers serious injury he or his legal team may seek to gain funding from wherever possible. He may well have legal cover on his policy and the solicitor could try throwing claims against any, and every party they can think of, ie other driver, local council, organiser of run. In the hope someone pays up regardless of responsibility. Sadly it's a culture we live in, as a club we shouldn't leave organisers open to such targeting. A quick read of post 16 of this thread highlights the point.
It may not be the club member themselves who instigates such a claim, rather his insurance company seeking to minimise their own financial commitment.
What Doofer is suggesting is an insurance policy to fund fight these claims, rather than any member having to try and fund fighting it themselves.
I appreciate Martins viewpoint, the question is, would you be willing to fund your own legal battle against any claim against you if an incident occurred on a run you organised. Whilst I'm not suggesting you could fund a multi-million pound claim individually, (you might) you do have a home and a selection of motor vehicles that could be sold to finance some compensation. Are you happy to risk them?
My point is, we shouldn't expect any organiser to risk their own financial position, for the benefit of other club members.
|
|
