Reviving a 600N. Some questions.

[oroboras]

Hi all, I have just bought a 1997 XJ600N, that had a problem with the ignition barrel.

I am going to have to buy a new barrel (the metal tab that stops rain getting in had fell inside & jammed the old one, and the previous owner broke the barrel trying to get it out), but since the 600N has a two-plug/4 wire set up, and the 600S has a different type of connection, is there any way to fit the 600S version? - they seem more common, so that normally equals cheaper. I'm on a really tight budget.

Secondly, because of the problem, this bike has been laid-up for around a year. What advice can you guys give me, to get it ready for the road. I have already drained the old fuel out, ready to re-fill with new fuel.

One problem the bike has is that the Reserve tank doesn't seem to work, so I guess I should remove the tap - and strip it down, to see if it is blocked. I've read through the forum, and have noted the problem with the internal 'straw' but it can't be that, as no fuel comes out, even with the tank full.

Also, the speedo isn't working, but it appears that it is the sender unit, in the hub, that is the cause.

The front brake seems to be a bit 'sticky' - should I strip the caliper down?

Thanks in advance, for any advice given.

[beeblemaster]

Hello and welcome to the club. It really depends on how the bike has been kept during it's lay up. A year isn't a long time. It might just need a brake service as you suggest, check the chain and lube it, check the engine oil, tyre pressures and condition then fire it up and give it a go.

Then if you don't know what sort of servicing it's had, perhaps give it oil change and check air filter - anything else just pick up on the fly.

Enjoy and let us know.

;D

[CD]

I bought a 600 that had been laid up for many years (9 years old and only 815 miles). But it had been properly garaged so was in great condition. However, the carbs were gunked up and the rear brake siezed after a few months use.

If it wont start easily I'd say get into the carbs and clean everything paying special attention to the choke plungers. Only word of caution DO NOT touch the low speed mixture screws.

The fuel tap might well have lost its reserve straw - its not uncommon on many bikes.
As a result the fuel tap could be full of gunk.

The brake might just need a clean and tidy around the pads and if the piston is sticking , it *can* be exercised in-out to free it off. However, I have never (ever) had any success doing that. I think its an old garage gag to make a bit of cash knowing the owner will soon be back for a caliper strip.
I always use genuine Yamaha seals having had no success with pattern seals.

[beeblemaster]

May 17, 2009 2:04:10 GMT beeblemaster said:

Hello and welcome to the club. It really depends on how the bike has been kept during it's lay up. A year isn't a long time. It might just need a brake service as you suggest, check the chain and lube it, check the engine oil, tyre pressures and condition then fire it up and give it a go.

Then if you don't know what sort of servicing it's had, perhaps give it oil change and check air filter - anything else just pick up on the fly.

Enjoy and let us know.

;D

I can't believe I posted something so informative while blotto, I've only just remembered doing this ;D

[pilgrim]

On the ignition switch front the answer is probably no, not just because the wiring may be different but also the mountings ARE! The N switch has a long rectangular body to which the barrel is fixed. The S Diversion switch body is short and dumpy and does not physically sit between the instrument pods. You could alter the wiring but that's the least of your problems. And you're right, the N switch is 3-times the price!

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...............

[sparky392]

Hi,
I bought an ignition switch for my 97n aug/sept last year, I got mine on ebay for about £36 plus p & p, have looked to see if seller has any more, but doesn't appear to in his shop, although an email might determine if he can get anymore. also wemoto can supply one for £41:60 plus p & p
Hope this is of use to you
dave

[oroboras]

Cheers for the input and advice!.

The bike was garaged while it was off the road, and was serviced regularly under the last owners care.

I'll lube the chain, and I've checked the sprockets, and they are fine.
It's done 28k (plus a few hundred with the speedo not reading)
The air filiter is a bit tired, but not dirty all over, so probably a few miles left in it yet, and the oil in the view-window looks nicely golden, so I may hold off on the oil & filter change for a bit, and put the extra cash towards replacing the rear tyre, which is borderline (the front has maybe 1000 miles left)

I've sourced a proper 600N ignition barrel, for £25 new - now I just need £25!!
I'm aldo going to check/clean the fuel tank out, just incase, and drain the carbs of their old fuel & maybe give them a clean with Carb Cleaner.

I'm putting my old (faulty) CX500 on eBay to pay for this project, so I'll keep you posted on my progress - but it'll be a week or two, as I have very little time & money to get it done quickly.

[billywhizz]

Fuel is fed by vacuum, so won't flow until engine running, however, there is a prime seting, this allows fuel to feed the carbs while not running.
I wouldn't think a carb clean would be required just yet, get it running and see, with some fresh petrol. a quick brake clean to ensure pistons work and as per above posts check oil, tyres etc..

[beeblemaster]

May 17, 2009 15:45:40 GMT oroboras said:

I'm putting my old (faulty) CX500 on eBay to pay for this project

What's wrong with it... don't suppose you have a spare CDI knocking about do you?

[sparky392]

Hi again,
what you asking for cx?, been looking for vt 500 as project bike but woulsd also consider cx....

[CD]

If the oil is 12 months old really should be changed as all the important additives will have degraded.

Carb cleaner only works if you strip the carbs. Putting stuff in the tank risks it loosening out any old gunk and clogging things even more so you also need to strip the fuel tap and fit a fuel filter.

A dirty air filter will mess up the carburation but blowing out with compressed air should help.

[oroboras]

Well, as to the CX, it's a sad sad story of buying from eBay....

I bought it in August last year, for £500, as a bike that had been laid up for a couple of years, but just put back on the road. The guy knew "nothing about it's condition - other than he'd got it through an MOT"

Right. The front brakes siezed up within 2 days of me getting it home, and so I bought new pistons, & cleaned the bores & replaced the seals.

Then I spent £160 on a lovely set of Avon tyres, as the bike was fitted with Chinese death-trap tyres, but within 40 miles of them being fitted, it broke down (It had broken down a week before with blocked jets - so I suspected this again, even though I had cleaned the carbs out, as I hadn't cleaned the tank out).

What happened was, I rode it to the post office, and turned it off, while I went to post a parcel. When I got back, it wouldn't start. It turned over, but no life - so of course I suspected the fuel again - but this turned out to not be the problem. To this day, I don't know what the problem is.

When I looked into the condition of the bike, I found it to be worse than it looked. The engine had been swapped for an earlier one (bike is 82, engine is 78. I discovered this after spending £25 on a set of Carb kits - using the age of the bike for ordering purposes - which didn't fit - grr)

In my attempt to fix the problem, I changed the wiring loom - the old one was hacked about, and had the problem CX's have with wires breaking near the headstock. I also changed the Generator Stator, the Pulser Stator (£60 on its own!!!), both coils, both plugs, both HT leads, CDI box, brand new battery, regulator rectifier, and finally a different (guaranteed working) engine - that was £160.

This turned out to be a problem, as it is from a Eurosport, and so is a Transistorised Ignition version, rather than the CDi version, like mine, but there is a fix including swapping the backplates, which I did, but I forgot to swap the generator Rotor (the TI one is missing the trigger for the main timing pulsers the CDI is fitted with) and having put the engine back in the bike, I'm not willing to take it out again, as I've already done it twice, and to be frank, I'm p***ed off with the whole thing, hence buying the Divvy.

I also stripped & cleaned the Kill switch, and so I know that isn't the problem.

I bet it will be a really easy fix for someone with the time/knowhow/patience that I lack. As to price, with all money I've spent on it, and the fact that it has 2 engines, brand new tyres/battery, is till MOT'd & Taxed, I'm sure it must be worth £400, even not working.

There is also a spare Generator, CDi box, Pulser stator, 2 spark plugs, 2 HT coils, spare Centre stand, 4 spare heads, all the plastics are in good condition and has a top-box.

The Eurosport engine is from a stolen/recovered bike, from a breakers, and has its engine number defaced, but it was sold as a guaranteed working engine, with 50k on it.

I'm going to put it on eBay within the next couple of days starting at £400, but if someone on here wants it, you can have it for £400.



As to the other stuff listed in the posts, cheers for the info. I'll change the oil to be on the safe side, as I really want this bike to work well for me - I don't want a lemon!!

The carb cleaner I meant was the type when you strip the carbs, as that was one job I was going to do, but I'll just see if it starts fine first (just need the ignition switch now!)

[teejayexc]

May 19, 2009 1:40:43 GMT oroboras said:

1). The guy knew "nothing about it's condition - other than he'd got it through an MOT"




2). In my attempt to fix the problem, I changed the wiring loom - the old one was hacked about,

1) Didn't Martin have a CX? Hmm, I wonder.....

2) The case grows stronger.....

;D

[m40man]

Trev, you are a git. I'm gonna be round your 'ouse tomorra [1]. I jolly well might let your tyres down .






[1] All being well. Keep you mobile switched on.

[CD]

Wouldny you get more ny selling the CX bits.
Sorry you got caught out on fleabay. I very nearly got stuffed for a Divvie 400 that its owner (had no ideas was not a 600) Oh yes really.

[oroboras]

I probably would get more, but at this point, I'm running on apathy!

Anyway, as a job lot, its more tempting for someone (though I was tempted to keep the working engine, and build a trike around it - Morgan style, or get a knackered Eurosport, & put the good engine in, and buy a sidecar)

[CD]

I once had a sidecar it was properly set up by Squire and was a horrible death trap. I would never have another one. It didnt go, couldnt stop; left hand bends were ridiculous with the wheel in the air and on right hands you could hear the spokes straining. Dont do it!!!

Now a narrow tadpole trike that leans (like a covered Piaggio MP3) - now that would be interesting.

[oroboras]

May 20, 2009 10:23:54 GMT CD said:

left hand bends were ridiculous with the wheel in the air and on right hands you could hear the spokes straining. Dont do it!!!

You were riding it wrong, lol.

You need to approach combinations from a different angle, and ride in a completely different way.
Anyway, I need something to carry luggage, as I'm trying to get away from cars completely, and a combo can do that. It'd be fun!!

[CD]

I used to throw my body weight over the car to keep the wheel down and could get some three wheel drifts going, but got fed up having always get off the seat on every LH bend or risk running wide. Slow in fast out didnt work though maybe a sidecar brake might have helped.

I'm building a monowheel trailer that will lean with the bike. It should carry 50kg to 70kg payload so unless I become a window cleaner it should hold all I need. The big advantage is still being able to filter.

A sidecar has all the bad points of a bike (personal risk, weather, need to wear safety gear) and all the bad points of a car (slow, stuck in queues). Can't see the point.

[oroboras]

Just to let you all know, my bike runs fine.
I had it up & running within 3 hrs of starting work on it, and that includes the time spent changing the speedo drive!
I have a temporary flip-switch operating the ignition, until I can find another ignition barrel, within £25.
I'll be booking it in for its MOT this week, and so hopefully I will be on the road before the weekend is through. I did a short test ride tonight, and it handles lovely

[CD]

Maybe you could fit an alloy panel between the frame tubes behind the headstock to take a suitable key switch. Who says it "has" to be on the top tripleclamp?

Edit:
Perhaps a hidden pushbutton would be good to isolate the ignition in case someone trys his luck with a screwdriver.

[oroboras]

My bike passed it's MOT today, and is now on the road.
I'll be giving it a good service in the next week or two as well, lust in case!

I've sourced a new ignition barrel, so should have one shortly.