Drip drip drip

[Ghoti]

fazerian said:

what the bright soft southerner said

Have an exhault on me mate ;D


To be done for careless driving, your driving has to be careless. The coppers may stop you and start proceedings, but unless it was done in a careless/dangerous way, and from what I've heard only then with video evidence, CPS will not prosecute.

[Pooh(c)]

This is degenerating into a debate about symantics. If we're not carefull we might havde a serious debate on the divvy site

I have voiced my opinion. If you think I'm wrong and the legality or otherwise of an undertake please feel free to play with marked and unmarked cars. It's your choice.

I'm sure the Traffic Officers in Scotland would care to differ with your approach. It might come down to the judge to decide but I wouldn't be holding out much hope for the

" but you honour undertaking is not illegal" argument that you instructed your brief to submit on your behalf.

As with all things there has to be a modicum of common sense allpied here. The discussion started off with the two nutters in wales. There is a huge difference in what they were doing as compared to filetering through traffic doing 10 mph.

[HRHpenfold]

pooh said:

This is degenerating into a debate about symantics.

I have voiced my opinion. If you think I'm wrong and the legality or otherwise of an undertake please feel free to play with marked and unmarked cars. It's your choice.

I'm sure the Traffic Officers in Scotland would care to differ with your approach. It might come down to the judge to decide but I wouldn't be holding out much hope for the

" but you honour undertaking is not illegal" argument that you instructed your brief to submit on your behalf.

ok then

[alpaholic]

pooh said:

Regarding the legality of undertaking.. it is illeagle with 2 exceptions

• when the traffic on a motorway or dual carriadge way is crawling
  
• you are exiting a motorway or dual carriadgeway
  

Ok, I'm not disagreeing with you. I merely asking for you to post your source for this.

pooh said:

I spoke to my local Traffic department and if you did it to one of them you would be guaranteed to be done with either a Section 3 ( Careless Driving ) or Section 2 ( Dangerous Driving ) of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

Guaranteed? Of course plod can try and prosecute for anything they like but can they point to a single example where undertaking alone lead to a conviction? I supect not, and that other factors will always have been involved.

Freakily enough a TrafPol first drew my attention to the fact[1] that undertaking isn't illegal.

[1] Or I assume it is a fact. It certainly was then.

[alpaholic]

pooh said:

I have voiced my opinion.

Nobody is disagreeing with your opinion. There is just one single fact in dispute. One that would be useful to clear up. (I don't want to get done for undertaking for the sake of not knowing the law.)

pooh said:

If you think I'm wrong and the legality or otherwise of an undertake please feel free to play with marked and unmarked cars. It's your choice.

I don't think you're wrong. I don't know. That's why I'm asking for you to post your source. Is that unreasonable?

pooh said:

It might come down to the judge to decide but I wouldn't be holding out much hope for the

" but you honour undertaking is not illegal" argument that you instructed your brief to submit on your behalf.

I would think that not having commited an offence would be as close to a cast iron defence as you can get!

[Pooh(c)]

Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52)
1988 c. 52 - continued

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

back to previous page


An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.
[15th November 1988]




Be it enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Part I
Principal Road Safety Provisions


Driving offences

Causing death by reckless driving.

1. A person who causes the death of another person by driving a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.

Reckless driving.

2. A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.

Careless, and inconsiderate, driving.

3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

Does it mention undertaking specifically - NO

It also does not mention doing stoppies at the lights, wheelies, riding whilst sitting backwards looking into a mirror, and a host of other things that bikers can and do, do.

The fact is that if you undertake a police car, marked or unmarked, like a hooligan, you will get done.

IMHO

[HRHpenfold]

anyhow tailgating is much more dangerous and seems to be getting much mor prevalent

[Pooh(c)]

Just to show I can agree with people-

Penfold - I agree completely. ;D

[Andy-Red-Divi]

fazerian said:

anyhow tailgating is much more dangerous and seems to be getting much mor prevalent

I agree, tailgating and middle lane hogging are what gets my goat (if I had one to get!)

A few squirts of the windscreen washer and the tailgaters get the message. Same goes for middle lane hoggers, just dive in front of them and a give them a couple of squirts to wake them up!

Andy

[alpaholic]

pooh said:

Does it mention undertaking specifically - NO

That's all I was asking.

[HRHpenfold]

pooh said:

Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52)
1988 c. 52 - continued

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

back to previous page


An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.
[15th November 1988]




Be it enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—
Part I
Principal Road Safety Provisions


Driving offences

Causing death by reckless driving.

1. A person who causes the death of another person by driving a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.

Reckless driving.

2. A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.

Careless, and inconsiderate, driving.

3. If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

Does it mention undertaking specifically - NO

It also does not mention doing stoppies at the lights, wheelies, riding whilst sitting backwards looking into a mirror, and a host of other things that bikers can and do, do.

The fact is that if you undertake a police car, marked or unmarked, like a hooligan, you will get done.

IMHO

if you do anything like a hooligan you will get done, but your jumping to undertaking is hooligan, the list you state are clearly different, to do stoppies or sitting backwards, you would then not be in control of the vehicle, again its interpretation, where as the court ultimatly determins the interpretation, not the police

[alpaholic]

andyreddivi said:

middle lane hoggers, just kill them, burn their villages, rape and kill their offspring and bury their wives alive.

Agree.

[HRHpenfold]

andyreddivi said:

fazerian said:

anyhow tailgating is much more dangerous and seems to be getting much mor prevalent

I agree, tailgating and middle lane hogging are what gets my goat (if I had one to get!)

A few squirts of the windscreen washer and the tailgaters get the message. Same goes for middle lane hoggers, just dive in front of them and a give them a couple of squirts to wake them up!

Andy

kewl, where does they fit on your bike?

[HRHpenfold]

better go and do some work ;D

[judi]

Y'all need to breathe

[Andy-Red-Divi]

alpaholic said:

andyreddivi said:

middle lane hoggers, just kill them, burn their villages, rape and kill their offspring and bury their wives alive.

Agree.

Are you a journalist by any chance?

[Pooh(c)]

final post on the undertaking topic

The fact is that if you undertake a police car, marked or unmarked, like a hooligan, you will get done.

It was badly worded

Should have read

The fact is that if you undertake a police car, marked or unmarked, like a hooligan, as opposed to the acceptable methods of undertaking, you will get done.

Judi - this is the best debate I've had on here for a while. It's also nice to see the post count going up without resorting to LOL's & ROFL's

Anyway back to work now.

[Ghoti]

pooh said:

The fact is that if you undertake a police car, marked or unmarked, like a hooligan, you will get done.

IMHO

It's those 'Like a hooligan' words that do it. That is what will bring in the careless driving or dangerous driving, NOT the act of undertaking.

IMHO

[alpaholic]

pooh said:

Judi - this is the best debate I've had on here for a while.

Agree! Livened things up a lot! Thanks (to all)!

[alpaholic]

ghoti said:

It's those 'Like a hooligan' words that do it. IMHO

Healine: "Fazer riders immune to prosecution shock!"

[judi]

It's also nice to see the post count going up without resorting to LOL's & ROFL's

Unfortunately, that is the price i pay for being a total Numpty

[judi]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/6657453.stm

[Pooh(c)]

A spokesman for West Midlands Ambulance Service said more lives could have been lost.

Especially if the government got it's way and taxed us off the roads and into public transport.

Lights blue touchpaper and retires........

[m40man]

ghoti said:

It's those 'Like a hooligan' words that do it. That is what will bring in the careless driving or dangerous driving, NOT the act of undertaking.

IMHO

I'm a bit confused. Are you trying to say 'Like a G U R N I N M A N', but it gets auto-Doofered ?

[HRHpenfold]

pooh said:

final post on the undertaking topic

The fact is that if you undertake a police car, marked or unmarked, like a hooligan, you will get done.

It was badly worded

Should have read

The fact is that if you undertake a police car, marked or unmarked, like a hooligan, as opposed to the acceptable methods of undertaking, you will get done.

Judi - this is the best debate I've had on here for a while. It's also nice to see the post count going up without resorting to LOL's & ROFL's

Anyway back to work now.

lol ;D

[HRHpenfold]

rotfl ;D

[HRHpenfold]

andyreddivi said:

alpaholic said:

Agree.

Are you a journalist by any chance?

i thought that it was accurate, as Alphaholic said and i believe him

[derefood]

"riding whilst sitting backwards looking into a mirror"

Thats illegal? even if your over 21?

Well I'll be blowed.

[iooi]

Old film that.
And to be fair they should have pulled 90% of the drivers in the right hand lane over as they caused the problem..... It really bugs me that so many drivers fail to use the left hand lane on m'ways and duel carragways..

On the bikers point they really should not have undetaken so many of the cars and the coach as they did not give them a chance to move over, had any of them done so it would have been curtains.

[judi]

derefood said:

Well I'll be blowed.

Lucky you