Endless Clutch problem...

[johnnyboy]

Hi,

I bought my 99 600s just over a year ago and have had endless problems with the clutch since then.

Basically, when I am stopped and in gear, even though I have pulled the clutch all the way in, the bike is edging forward. The bike tends to stall if I am stopped for too long and I cannot change the gear to neutral (unless I am able to before I stop). Whilst riding the gears are very hard to change down (but I believe that may be by design ;D)

I have done quite a lot of things over the past year (when I have had time).

To summarise:
- tightened clutch as much as possible: no result
- changed the oil: no result
- bought a new clutch cable: no result
- changed the clutch springs: no result
- changed the clutch plates (steel and friction): result !

For a while I started getting normal behaviour from the clutch. About a 1,000 miles later the problem has come back. One thing I have noticed is that if I am in lowish revs and accelerating away there is a knocking sound from the gearbox until the revs get a little higher (that may or may not be related).

I am hoping someone here can give me some new avenues to explore.

[CD]

It seems the only thing you've not changed the release bearing. If that's collapsed the cutch won't release.

Also check the clutch basket for lift on its bearings. There should be no up/down or in/out movement.

[johnnyboy]

Thanks, a bit of a beginner here, how do I see that the release bearing has collapsed ? Also any idea on where I might be able to get a new one.

[sparky@TLB]

spend £15 on a set of Reapers 600 workshop DVDs it will show you how to do the bearing and the clutch rattle as well.best £15 i have spent on the bike .Fowler's of Bristol for Yamaha genuine parts.£8 for thrust bearing,£4 plate washer .or from simply bearings.

[johnnyboy]

I finally found the time to open the clutch today. It was indeed the release bearing. It wasn't so much that it was shot, there wasn't actually any bearing there, just the washer. Luckily I had ordered a new one. It all seems to work correctly now.

Quite a novelty to be riding this bike with a properly functioning clutch

Thanks for the tip

[CD]

They seem to be lucky to get any oil so you might want to give the new release bearing a good dose of high temperature grease.

[paulmason]

Just had the thrust race on mine break up You can get both the bearing and the thrust washer from Simply Bearings 0845 6783336 or simplybearings.co.uk they are standard parts.
Bearing - AXK1528 = £2.34
Thrust washer - AS1528 = £0.92
Postage is £1.50 (all +vat)
Thay will come first class post next day! best place for any ball / roller bearings you may need!

P.S. Yamaha prices - Bearing £9.95, Washet £1.44.

This cured the same faults as you had, but make sure the spinning thrust washer hasn't damaged the presure plate!

Paul

[Flymo]

If the knackered bearing has damaged either the pressure plate or the release plunger, you can put a thrust washer on either side of the bearing, as long as the damage is only minor theres plenty of room for it since as they are only 1mm thick

Flymo

[CD]

Washers either side make sense anyway as the old bearing groove won't really suite the new parts.

[johnnyboy]

So you're saying having the bearing in between 2 washers, the whole lot on the pull rod ?

I got my parts from www.cmsnl.com, probably more expensive than Simply Bearings, but I need to pay for shipping to Belgium anyhow.

[Flymo]

yep a bit like this



plunger

washers

bearing

gear-rack

HTH

Flymo

[johnnyboy]

Right, I am getting to the point of despair now :-(

Friday,last week I rode the bike to work, no problem. On the way home it started spinning at 6.5k revs when I was accelerating.

Over the week-end I took it out to see if I can reproduce the spinning, but it worked fine and I was really pushing it as hard as I could.

On my ride to work this morning, it was fine all the way and started spinning just as I arrived. On the way home it was spinning from the start and now I also have the non-release problem which is creeping back (the bike trying to edge forward when the clutch is held firmly in).

Any ideas anyone ?

One thing I noticed is that there was no slack on the clutch handle this morning when I started off and I noticed some slack now (as if it had been loosened - which I have not done).

I would like to avoid taking it to a garage, but running out of options...

Thanks

[darren]

have you checked the cable is free within the sleeving,if its not it will stick in the sleeving, slowly releasing causing slipping

scratch that, ya got a newun ;D

[darren]

what oil are you using

[johnnyboy]

I am using 10w40 Silkolene synthetic oil, the same type and brand which was in it before I replaced the thrust bearing.

[charlietbird]

That may be your problem! Some people have had slipping clutch problems when using fully synthetic oil. Use semi synth and you should be ok

HTH

Charlie

[johnnyboy]

Will give it a shot.

Would the oil also be part of the reason for the odd clutch behaviour since I changed the thrust bearing ?

[darren]

yup, I had fully in mine, purely by accident, picked up the wrong bottle, i tried it anyway, it slipped, so had to drain the lot of again

[CD]

My 900 has had 5-40 full synth for 20,000 miles no problems.

Try an oil change, but more likely there is a more serious clutch problem. You said the clutch adustment was moving - sump oil wont cause that.

[johnnyboy]

OK, finally found time to open up my clutch again. It actually stopped working altogether, so had a clutchless ride home from work... There are 2 things of note:

1. the new thrust bearing has completely disintegrated and the washer is 'welded' to the pull rod

2. some teeth have been broken off the pull rod, which I suppose resulted in my clutchless ride home. Probably due to my tightening the clutch cable too much.

Now I think the thrust bearing disintegration is likely due to lack of lubrication and it just melted away. It probably happened very soon after I originally put it back in the bike.

Anyone got any tips ? I don't want to go out and buy some new parts only for this to happen again...

Here are some pictures
picasaweb.google.com/61Station/YamahaClutch

[CD]

Bad luck. :-(
You may be right about the cable. It probably wrecked the bearing as its not designed for continuous use. Its also worth rebuilding with high temperature grease on the release bearing as it seems to struggle for oil.

Best option is probably a new clutch from ebay. Anything with worn bearing surfaces can't be used successfully with new parts. Your parts (ooh missus) look pretrty mashed.

While you are at it check for the drive pin that causes the D600 "clutch rattle".

[johnnyboy]

I went to my local Yamaha dealer and ordered new pressure plate, rod, thrust bearing, washer and friction plates. He thinks it might be due to a dodgy oil pump, which is not giving enough lubrication and causing all of this.

Any ideas what to look for with that ?

I am tempted to get the bike over to him and pay for him to get it done.

[CD]

If the oil pump has failed the engine will be wrecked so there wont be any need for a new clutch. But the oil pump should not pump anywhere near the clutch.

I think the 600 clutch release tends to be under lubricated (oil gets centifuged away by the clutch). But if well greased and properly adjusted it should be ok. Also avoid leaving the bike ticking over on the side stand as the oil level will tilt away from the clutch side of the engine.

BTW while the clutch cover is off the bike, make sure the sump oil level window is clean and make sure the bike is dead vertical when checking the level. The level window is a naff idea but its all we have.

While on the oil subject have you checked out the auxiliary drive pin behind the clutch? Its the source of the infamous "clutch" rattle.

As for doing the job... The Haynes manual give all the data you need. Follow it to the letter and all will be fine. If you find anything else that's not as - replace it. Doing half of the job always ends up more costly in the long run.

[johnnyboy]

Yes I'll check that drive pin.

Can you recommend any high temperature grease ?

[CD]

Rocol is fantastic but you'll need a mortgage. Otherwise any moly grease stuff that's in the local motor factors should do.

DO NOT use anti-sieze paste. It works at high temperatues but its not a lubricant.

When you fit the clutch release rack and pinion etc, make really sure its all working smoothly. There's a good chance it broke its teeth, then jammed and that's what wrecked the clutch.

[biblebasher]

being a lazy sod with a similar clutch problem, can i just lean the bike over to save draining the oil?!!

[Flymo]

worked for me when i replaced the thrust bearing...

Flymo

[CD]

Apr 28, 2009 19:13:53 GMT biblebasher said:

being a lazy sod with a similar clutch problem, can i just lean the bike over to save draining the oil?!!

Possibly, but the clutch centrifuges the oil off itself so maybe it wont make much difference. And... if you have my luck with bikes falling over, you'd drop the bike while doing it.

Looking at the mess JB has had to put up with - is it worth the risk?

[johnnyboy]

OK, getting my new parts in the morning, got some grease which can resist temperatures of up to 220 degrees C (428F). Hope that is enough as it is all I could find.

I'll also be following the idea of Flymo and putting 2 washers around the thrust bearing.

All I need now is a couple of hours free of the wife and kids to get this re-assembled and tested...

[CD]

If the engine gets that hot the grease will be the least of your worries.
If anything else turns up that's questionable stop the job and replace it or repair before moving on.