Clutch / Gearbox problem

[johnnyboy]

Hi,

I have a 1999 600 Diversion (got it a few months ago) and seem to have a problem with to the clutch and/or gearbox.

Apart from being rather 'clunky' when changing gears, it feels like my clutch is not 'pulled back enough'. The result is that when stopped and in first, the bike will start moving forward, unless I hold the break (at which point it usually stalls). Finding neutral is near impossible without turning off the engine.

I have tried tightening the clutch cable, but it has not changed anything.

I am going to change the oil and the clutch cable to see if it has any impact.

Anyone here got something else I can look at ?

Thanks

[darren]

possibly a stretched cable thats adjusted to its max, change the cable first and take it from there, could also be weak springs on the clutch itself

[johnnyboy]

OK, clutch cable changed and installed, but it has not made any difference. It is also tightened to the max, but the behaviour is still the same.

How do I check those clutch springs ?

Thanks

[General Gman]

Ok...
Drain the oil, remove the clutch cover (after detaching the cable from the cover).
Undo the bolts holding the pressure plate on (loosen them in a criss-cross pattern), remove the clutch springs.
Measure them with a vernier gauge if you have on - minimum free length is 41.8mm (standard is 42.8).

[johnnyboy]

Will take a look.

Silly question: any gaskets involved with this ? If so, I need to go out and get those (as well as a Haynes Manual)

Thanks

[General Gman]

Clutch cover gasket is all - you might get away without one, though.
I always have a tube of high temp silicone sealant handy for these eventualities.
When I dropped the sump on my gixxer I made a new gasket from a cereal packet

[teejayexc]

I made a new gasket from a cereal packet

High in fibre I trust?

;D Trev

[bobh]

Ah, that would be one of what Sainsbury's call "Adult Cereals". Always feel I ought to wear an old raincoat when I go in to get my oats...

[darren]

tap at the casing carfully, and it should come off no probs, I have only ever boogered one gasket, the sealer came out, but if you do use sealer make sure its dry and do not fill with oil till its set, check the release bearing/thrust bearing while you are in there

do you have a manual, if not, PM me your email addy

BTW, they are a clunky box, but as you said, an oil and filter change will do it some good

[bostonboy]

there all right springs are easy to check mine are about ready to be changed now after 87000 miles lol good old bullit proof engines (but a really noisey clutch even after doing the pin replacement. if your mecanicaly minded you could even do the pin (if needed) while youve got her drained. dan

[johnnyboy]

Right, engine drained, clutch cover removed, gasket ripped to shreads in the process. The springs measure out at 41mm, which looks quite off the minimum.

One things I did notice is that they all partially covered with limestone, a bit like the heating element of a kettle.

Could that be caused by overheating ?

I would post a picture, but can't seem to get that working either ...

Thanks

[darren]

is there any blueing on the metal friction plates and is the still grooves left on the clutch pressure plates

as for the pics, just use photbucket

[CD]

While the cover is off check the release mechanism is working properly. I've had perfectly good clutches "fail" when it was actually the release bearing/lever. Also check the plates are all flat and within the service wear limits.

The best gasket goo I've used is the Loctite anaerobic stuff in a syringe type tube. It sets only within the joint and therefore wont dry into lumps that can fall into the engine and clog important oil drillings. Not cheap but a tube will last a very long time.

[johnnyboy]

New clutch springs installed, but it has not made any difference to the behaviour. I still struggle to find neutral and the bike wants to drive off, even when I am holding in the clutch.

Just to summarise:
- new clutch cable installed
- oil and oil filter changed
- new clutch spings

The clutch plates looked fine (flat and within to wear limits).

Anyone got more ideas ?

[darren]

Jun 16, 2008 11:28:47 GMT johnnyboy said:

New clutch springs installed, but it has not made any difference to the behaviour. I still struggle to find neutral and the bike wants to drive off, even when I am holding in the clutch.

Just to summarise:
- new clutch cable installed
- oil and oil filter changed
- new clutch spings

The clutch plates looked fine (flat and within to wear limits).

Anyone got more ideas ?

Jun 10, 2008 21:45:44 GMT CD said:

While the cover is off check the release mechanism is working properly. I've had perfectly good clutches "fail" when it was actually the release bearing/lever. Also check the plates are all flat and within the service wear limits.

other than that it could be a gear selector problem if what you have done has not solved it, BTW, what oil do you use

[bobh]

Everything points to not getting enough travel at the release bearing. Other than internal things, which you seem to have covered, here's a couple of silly things that might reduce the travel:

1. Have you checked that the clutch cable anchor point at the bottom end isn't loose or bending when you pull the lever in?
2. Is the clutch lever on the handlebar bent, so it comes up against the grip before the clutch releases completely? On this point, you could try bending the lever outwards a bit to see if the extra travel does the trick.

Bob

[johnnyboy]

I am using Elf 10w40 oil I got from my local Yamaha dealer.

I am going out of town for a while, so will come back to this in a few weeks. With the end result.

Thanks for all the tips so far

[darren]

Jun 18, 2008 19:46:32 GMT bobh said:

Everything points to not getting enough travel at the release bearing. Other than internal things, which you seem to have covered, here's a couple of silly things that might reduce the travel:


Bob

that was my thought but he seems to have checked all angles, so running out of suggestions here, it could also be as you said above, clutch lever, it could be off something else and not a divy, therefor not allowing full engagement and travel

[studiverts]

Hi - like you thrust bearing disintegrated - also WEARING on the plate with 4 holes (for the springs) due to bearing gone, found this meant that although the cable moves the plate doesn't so the clutch doesn't work. the teeth on the pin which sticks out should start about 3mm out from the plate. I put in a thick washer and now OK - probably better to get a new plate!

[johnnyboy]

Hello,

Back after some rather long hols... I just want to take this up and see if I can fix it myself or just bring it into a garage.

Here are the symptoms:
1. Gear engaging and bike moving forward when clutch pulled all the way in. If I hold the brakes, it stalls. The gear box does give out a knocking noise in the process
2. Struggle to find neutral
3. Have some difficulties changing gears both up and down

So far I have done the following:
1. Changed clutch cable
2. Changed clutch springs
3. Changed oil in the process

A few new elements:

1. Even though the clutch cable is tightened all the way, it does appear to be slack (compared to some other bikes I have owned).
2. When coming to a stop, if I let the engine slow down till I hit the 2K rpm, I can easily change gears and get it into neutral (not ideal if you need to come to a sudden stop).

I am still thinking it is to do with the cluthc, perhaps the plates, although they looked fine when I looked at them.

Thanks for any help

[chunk166]

I'm not too machanically minded, but it does sound as if the clutch is dragging. if you put your bike on the centre stand start it & warm it up, whilst its on its stand put it in gear & see if the wheel turns with the clutch lever pulled in, if it does, i would suggest that you loosen off the cable & adjust it bit by bit untill the wheel doesn't move with the clutch in. but don't leave it in gear whilst you adjust it as it won't do the clutch any good running it with no load on it. i hope this helps you.

ray

[CD]

Most likely:
- Duff release bearing
- Bent clutch plates
- Worn clutch basket

Its got to be worth having that cover off again to suss it out before you do some damage.

In the meantime (if you don't already do it), missmatch the clutch/throttle on downchanges to blip the revs and make life a bit easier for the gears.