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Post by cmc90 on Sept 8, 2016 18:53:16 GMT
Hey folks! So a few months back I put my old girl in to get tarted up a bit: Before  After  Other than the odd wee thing needing primped and polished, she's doing not too bad... however; she's developed some disconcerting noises. I was told over the weekend that some of the girls "have heard worse". Which to be honest so have I, my old GPZ has more grunts and rattles than anything, but that's a kwak, it's part of it's charm? The XJ ran smooth as a sewing machine til she went in the shop, so this isn't normal for her. I know she could do with clutch plates, and she could probably be doing with carbs cleaned and balanced, but I don't think that's the whole story. She's smooth as anything low revs (anything sub-3500) and then smooth as anything over 5000 mark. In the middle, she's really rough, sounds nasty, and a horrible vibration off her that's knackering my dodgy wrists. She also has what I'd almost describe as a "tappety" noise, if I didn't know any better. Further to that (may or may not be related), we did mid-Wales back to SW-Scotland in one go on Monday, part of which was scorching heat and piddley wee towns - eventually ended up fighting for 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and neutral just didn't exist. Again, putting that one down to older girl needing clutch plates, but worth mentioning anyway. I've a mate coming to do clutch plates and fit a wee 12v/USB socket for me, could probably sweet talk him into dealing with carbs too... but there's a limit to how many favours I can ask, so I should probably work on a diagnosis for him! Any thoughts? Could it just be clutch and carbs or is there a possibility of anything else adding to it? I'll try get a video morra night for an example of her noises, if that's likely to help any? I'm not remotely mechanically minded unfortunately... there's plenty tasks I can carry out, but I don't actually have a clue what I'm talking about, just following instruction! However if there's anything else that would be useful information, I can attempt to answer! Thanks in advance  |
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Post by crickleymal on Sept 8, 2016 22:54:59 GMT
So what did the garage do? Did they remove anything?
I reckon a carb balance might be in order.
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Post by showaddydadito on Sept 9, 2016 6:35:02 GMT
The 4k vibes are one of the outstanding features of the 600 Divvy.
I ended up getting into the habit of keeping below or above the vibes.
I know that (vibes apart) the natural place for revs does feel like it should be about 4k, but you can soon enough get used to avoiding that patch. For slow town work you can live below it, and for any time you want more you can live above it.
Do the clutch and the carbs first, and then see what it's like.
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kk600cc
Scooter Rider
2003 BT1100 Bulldog
Posts: 57 
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Post by kk600cc on Sept 9, 2016 6:36:19 GMT
As crickleymal say's carb blalance will get rid of most noise but as the other noise is less it then seems the tappety noise is worse. This is what I have found on mine after the carb balance, so I will be checking the valve clearance's over winter if there ok will try a good quality oil as it seems to be at its worst once engine is hot.
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Post by m40man on Sept 9, 2016 6:42:59 GMT
I guess they removed the engine to paint it & the frame? To ease removal, they most likely removed the carbs.
If so, it's possible that the issue is simple - that there is an air leak between the airbox / carbs / motor due to poorly seated manifold rubbers on reassembly.
Or that in disturbing the carbs, some dirt in them got dislodged & has found it's way to causing a blockage.
As you've had the bike a while, you'll know what rattles etc are normal for it compared to now. I think a video of how it sounds now could be helpful.
EDIT: Regarding the clutch - sounds like an oil change is in order first. Apart from the noise, how does the engine perform, across the rev range? If it's just noise, no loss in performance, then I'd go with what others have said. I've based my suggestions on your first post, saying it's running like poop!
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kk600cc
Scooter Rider
2003 BT1100 Bulldog
Posts: 57
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Post by kk600cc on Sept 9, 2016 9:51:39 GMT
Also your tappety noise could be exhaust leak at headers if wasn't there before.
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Post by m40man on Sept 9, 2016 9:56:14 GMT
Also your tappety noise could be exhaust leak at headers if wasn't there before. That's a good point. I've just been out on my bike after fitting a new exhaust & getting exactly that from one of the pipes. Just waiting for it to cool down a bit before re-jigging it. |
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Post by kabulcalling on Sept 9, 2016 10:19:31 GMT
As M40 Man Says
Leaky carb rubbers.....?
When I recovered my D6 from my son, I had to remove the 33hp restrictor washers and getting the rubbers that run from the carb top to the airbox to fit was an absolute sod of a job
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Post by cmc90 on Sept 9, 2016 17:07:24 GMT
Thanks folks!
Yes, engine etc taken out to paint.
I'm "reliably informed" that the engine was cleaned through properly and that she had all new oil and filters on reassembly. My faith in the bloke that did it is non-existent however, but that's another story entirely. That said, while there were aspects of the bloke's personality that leave a lot to be desired, he did appear to be meticulous in his work. He did things like patch a hole in the airbox that had been missed by her previous mechanic prior to my owning her. She's one of those bikes that came with a massive folder of history suggesting she'd been kept to a certain standard, however; much of the work and maintenance over the years has been done by a mechanic that I now won't even go to for an MOT nevermind any real work.
I've got clutch plates ordered, oil and carbs will be checked when they're getting sorted and dealt with accordingly.
Regarding general performance... a difficult one given my lack of experience, I've only had her (and full licence) for 18 months so I'm still learning what comes from what. Prior to going into the shop, she couldn't fight her way out a wet paper bag. You had to really push her to get going anywhere. However; she now has new chain and sprockets and said sprockets are back to what the book said she should be (they'd been one tooth different back and front - can't remember which was up and which was down). Now? I nearly put her up on her back end coming out of a junction. The second you give her a handful, she shifts. Actual transmission seems smoother given new sprockets with chain not skipping, but I'm struggling with the clutch, getting it to disengage once she's warmed up and so on. I don't have the experience or knowledge to say what's coming from clutch or gears, what's coming from engine, etc. as she's the first bike I've had these issues with.
Could be into something with exhausts there too - horrid aftermarket things that don't fit her properly. Bloke in the shop had to make new brackets and dad had to bend another as one was scraping the swing arm. Something else to check.
Coming to rubbers, I'll be praying it's carbs/airbox if that's where the issue is. Another suggestion I've been given is rubbers on the mounting bolts or thereby as that's what was wrong with my mate's GPZ... that was an ar$e of a job to deal with!
I'll see where we're at after carbs are dealt with and go from there. Will update!
Thanks
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Post by bobh on Sept 11, 2016 19:14:31 GMT
I was going to suggest checking that all the engine mounting bolts are good and tight. Even one slack one could make a difference to the vibration - as I found out when I had some R&G crash bungs fitted (incorrectly, to the upper engine mounting bolts, though not on a Divvy) by a dealer who didn't torque them up properly.
A fairly common clutch release problem is wear in the upper needle roller bearing for the actuating spindle, the one that's just inside the oil seal on the top of the clutch casing, below where the arm fits onto it. It's caused by water getting past the seal and corroding the bearing, which also doesn't get any lubrication from the engine oil - so if it is replaced it should be assembled with some grease. Check to see if there's any detectable sideways play at the top of the spindle. If it does need attention, obviously it's best done while the cover's off to fit new plates. Having said that, if it wasn't a problem before, it would be a big coincidence for it to happen just when the engine's been out - unless they pressure washed it and some water got in that way.
Good luck!
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Post by cmc90 on Sept 19, 2016 20:35:03 GMT
Decided to leave off taking anything apart until after the weekend... Took a run up hartside on Saturday and came back covered in oil... Bike is well and truly grounded now.
Clutch plates have arrived, carbs will be dealt with same time. The oil leak has, *fingers crossed* been dealt with. I'm hoping that with all that's been discussed above... the answer to the majority of the issues should be in there... but I have one more now.
After the run up hartside I was back in the situation that as soon as my dodgy hands start to tire, I can't change gear. The slow maneuver stuff needed to get the bike through the outbuildings and in where it's kept was abandoned halfway through and left for daddy to deal with! Couldn't hold the clutch, couldn't pull it in far enough to disengage, and so on... The lever had been left slightly loose to allow me to reach it, it's since been tightened back up, which has proven the point that it will now disengage... but I can't ride the bike.
The TL;DR here, adjustable levers? Anyone sourced any that actually fit?
I'll update on the rest as it progresses.
Thanks in advance
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Post by GAv on Sept 19, 2016 21:22:34 GMT
It sounds like you may need a new clutch cable. My cable/lever was stiff and a first for me with a bike, clutch slip, not tyre spinning was experienced.
The bike was bought with a new cable so after finally getting around to fitting it,was transformed. I have actually changed the short levers for a longer set( again that came with the bike) on my 1000 Mille, as my shovel hands are better suited to longer levers, but that has a hydraulic clutch so I don't know if similar are available for cable clutches. These are also 5 way adjustable.
When you say you have the lever loose for the opposite reason, is it actually engaging/disengaging the clutch. Sounds like the problem but hey I'm not looking at the bike.
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kk600cc
Scooter Rider
2003 BT1100 Bulldog
Posts: 57
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Post by kk600cc on Sept 20, 2016 6:14:08 GMT
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Post by cmc90 on Sept 20, 2016 16:08:38 GMT
Hey, I've had a look at those ones from Hong Kong before... knowing nothing about the connection, do you reckon they look like the right thing? This is where I fall down in that knowing if it's the right thing is beyond me. My only concern with the ordering something from China, Japan, Hong Kong, etc... it takes weeks to arrive and then one finds out it's the wrong thing! My mate ordered these for his ZX-10, claimed to be the right thing, claimed to be compatible.. arrived and it's completely the wrong connection. Hence wondering if anyone may have gotten adjustable levers for this model. In response to Gav, to clarify my earlier post - When clutch lever slightly loosened to give enough play to let me reach it - no. It's not properly disengaging. My dad has tightened it back up and took it a run (to find the oil leak) and it is now properly fully disengaging. Hence the problem in that if the bike is set up as it should be so that the clutch will disengage, it renders it unridable for me as I can't physically reach the lever. I'm currently reduced to riding the GS500 until such times as I figure out a way of sorting this *shudder* |
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Post by GAv on Sept 20, 2016 17:01:03 GMT
 As I went for a run on the Mille today and had the shorter levers readily to hand (as above) those ones on the Fleabay link, ![]()  from Hong Kong, look suspiciously similar, in that where does the clutch cable nipple slot in. It may technically possible to fit a collar from a cable clutch but I have never tried(that particular botch).However I cannot either see how a cable would stay taught with the lever in the nearest position, and you still have a problem that the short levers need more leverage. Also yes Chinese stuff takes an age-a light nacelle I ordered I am not holding my breath to arrive in double quick time, however when the Solenoid went west on the Ape Mille, it was juswt before XMas , so wasnt urgent but took 3 weeks to get here. For 8 quid(probably add a nought from AFI Aprilia)and is still working fine am not complaining. My prob on that bike is the low riding style (which is fine at speed, I bought some risers from Hong Kong(based on my belief a lot of so called genuine stuff is also made in the Far East) because the lock nut wont budge on the top yoke, as yet they arent fitted, however the quality seems pretty good. For a while after my accident earlier in the year I couldnt get my damaged knee to bend enough to get on the peg, however even in leathers it was OK today. I feel more comfortable on the Cagivas I got recently but even with straight bars on them I get difficulty with arm and hand pains as well as those on my XJ600 onto which I tried a remote brake system from Hong Kong, which wouldnt keep the pressure,so I fully understand youre dilema. , short of getting someome conversant with alloy to heat the lever so it is bendable,I just hope someone can cast more light on your problems but would'nt waste money on those levers. |
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Post by cmc90 on Sept 20, 2016 17:41:40 GMT
I just couldn't handle something like the mille at all, the riding position would kill me. I struggle enough with the GPZ. I find the biggest issue I have is a sports type bike which is long enough for me to be on the tank is just that touch too tall for me (given the lean forward brings onto tiptoes, etc.). The rest, I'm leaning on my wrists no matter what I do. I find with our GPZ I can cope for a while as it's actually relatively upright, our CBR is just far too small, I feel perched on top of it at an awkward angle. The only things I've ever sat on and felt 100% on are adventure tourer types. I'll get my africa twin some day... (when I win the lottery)...
The XJ has been the best of a bad lot. I've done a reasonable mileage on it and "survived". It's been a brilliant first bike, so easy to ride and a real confidence giver. It's not a bike I foresee ever getting rid of, but it's not going to be my every day bike forever either. I know my issues with it aren't insurmountable. When there's girls in the club at 4ft 10in managing to adjust bikes to fit, I've got in easy in comparison!
I'm also considering risers, I think just a little bit more might help. Which other than her "rough" issues, just leaves me with the lever reach issue.
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Post by ContourMac on Sept 21, 2016 9:44:17 GMT
I had a set of the chinese levers on my Tiger 1050 and also the R1 and RGV. Debs also had a set on the FZ6 and there is a set awaiting fitting on the Tracer. Set costs about £20 and have always fitted without any problems. Normally about 2 weeks delivery
Very handy for small tweeks to the lever position to help small (or large) handed peoples. |
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Post by GAv on Sept 21, 2016 11:40:24 GMT
hrm ; personally I prefer the longer levers which give more leverage . However I enlarged the pics in the Fleabay link and especially looking at the coloured ones I can see now that there is a slot on some for the wire and nipple but not the adjuster, but then my new cable didnt have that on it(like the old one)at the bar end,I just hope someone can cast more light on your problems
seems CMac has endorsed those levers and as I said before I find the quality of these so called, by some, 'rip offs'perfectly good.
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Post by ContourMac on Sept 21, 2016 12:14:25 GMT
I have found that most of the bikes I've owned had the adjuster as a separate item screwing into the clutch handlebar mount rather than the lever inself. Although some cables do have it at the crankcase or even both |
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Post by GAv on Sept 21, 2016 12:38:16 GMT
Yes you are right again, my replacement one on my 600 had the adjuster at the crank end and yes the old one did have the adjuster in the mount but I had to junk that, with the new cable .
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