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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 19:12:54 GMT
Time for a new head scratcher.
Today I got my 600 Divvy kind of running,result! Now my new problem is its only running on the middle 2 cylinders. I swapped the coils over but it made no difference.
It has new plug caps,healthy battery,tried a different ignition unit (thank god for the box of spares) and I tried swapping the plug caps around hoping I may of got the firing order wrong but it got no better,its still a 300 twin cyl Divvy.
There is a spark when I rest the 2 outer plugs on the head and start it up but they appear weak.
Once its warmed up it starts well on 2 cylinders.
There is fuel getting through to the outer cylinders.
Could the coils be failing under compression?
Can the ht leads be replaced or are they captive leads? I dont want to try removing them untill I know if they come off or not for fear of permanently damaging them.
And can any one confirm the firing order for me please? My brother recons its 1324 and someone sugested 1243 (eh,new one on me) but Im sure its 1234 left to right as sat on the bike
And finally, I had a similar problem on my FZ750 years ago,the grey wire on the back of the clocks came off which made it run on 2 pots,I re connected it and job was a good 'un,back on all 4 again.
Is there a simillar affliction on 600 Divvys?
Sorry for such a long post but Im just throwing in as many theories as possible for everyone to ponder and make suggestions over.
All suggestions greatfully recieved,acknowledged,noted and tried.
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Post by alan292 on Mar 15, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
Time for a new head scratcher. Today I got my 600 Divvy kind of running,result! Now my new problem is its only running on the middle 2 cylinders. I swapped the coils over but it made no difference. It has new plug caps,healthy battery,tried a different ignition unit (thank god for the box of spares) and I tried swapping the plug caps around hoping I may of got the firing order wrong but it got no better,its still a 300 twin cyl Divvy. There is a spark when I rest the 2 outer plugs on the head and start it up but they appear weak. Once its warmed up it starts well on 2 cylinders. There is fuel getting through to the outer cylinders. Could the coils be failing under compression? Can the ht leads be replaced or are they captive leads? I dont want to try removing them untill I know if they come off or not for fear of permanently damaging them. And can any one confirm the firing order for me please? My brother recons its 1324 and someone sugested 1243 (eh,new one on me) but Im sure its 1234 left to right as sat on the bike And finally, I had a similar problem on my FZ750 years ago,the grey wire on the back of the clocks came off which made it run on 2 pots,I re connected it and job was a good 'un,back on all 4 again. Is there a simillar affliction on 600 Divvys? Sorry for such a long post but Im just throwing in as many theories as possible for everyone to ponder and make suggestions over. All suggestions greatfully recieved,acknowledged,noted and tried. congrats on getting it running....the firing order is 1-2-4-3...and no 1 is on the left as you sit on the bike...you said you had tried different plug caps and coils....silly question but did you try swopping the plugs? |
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Post by CD on Mar 18, 2014 9:10:40 GMT
Wasted sparks fire one on compression while the other is on exhaust stroke. They work on the pair that are moving up and down together. IIRC on the 600, one coil sparks the middle pair and the other the outer pair. It might be a faulty coil or bad low voltage connection to the coil. The leads are bonded into the coils. But to be honest replacement HT leads are pretty much snake oil. When the leads get to degraded by age, the coils themselves wont be far behind. Brand new coils are not silly money. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-XJ600-DIVERSION-COILS-RE2-/281176463541?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item41776c58b5 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 20:16:18 GMT
Cheers Lads!
Weather permitting tomorrow Ill swap the plugs around and see what happens with them as Ive known them to be awkward little buggers at the best of times,Ive not been able to do much to the bike lately as its been chucking it down so not a good idea to tinker with the wires!
I was thinking it may be something to do with the coils but why does it not make any difference when I swap them over,maybe it is a low voltage problem feeding the outer coils after all?
Someone suggested a fuel problem too. They recon the pump aint getting enough fuel to the outer carbs so Im going to try an fzr 1000 pump in place of the vacuum pump and see what happens there,but Im kinda sceptical on that one but hey its worth a shot!?
As usuall,cheers for the help and Ill keep every one updated.
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Post by CD on Mar 19, 2014 19:58:55 GMT
The coil or broken wiring is the most likely. Carbs are fed off a common line so if one is getting starved they all will.
Long shot (but easy to do) check battery voltage if its low the sparks box will do strange things.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 22:06:57 GMT
Some of you may heard the mother of all biblical proportion rants this morning!?
It looks like I've been barking up the wrong tree as I have found the problem.
After going through the wiring with the multi meter and plugging every thing back together again I decided to take a peek in the float bowls just to check that nowt was sticking/reducing petrol flow, 'y know,just to cover all bases.
To my horror on both outer carbs the small brass bolts that holds the jet cluster/assembly in place had both snapped.
How this happened god only knows as Im allways sooooooo carefull when it comes to carb intenals,all I can think of that these bolts must be damn fragile as I only gave them the gentlest of tweaks to tighten them up.
Anyway,Im making some new ones tomorrow out out stainless steel allen bolts,results will be updated as usuall.
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Post by CD on Mar 20, 2014 15:23:33 GMT
Brass is funny stuff. It actually worth using a light strength thread lock (standard will be too tough) then turning the screw just to the point where its tight but not quite as tight as normal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 20:29:06 GMT
It looks like the home made carb internal bolts have been a near success! Its now running on 3 pots but number 1 is a tad hit and miss. Its trying to run as the header pipe is getting quite hot but not as hot as the others but its a good result. It seems to kick in when the bike is upright and off the side stand as the revs rise to 3000rpm but its with a bit of a grumble,cough and splutter( and its revving out fairly well). With a bit more tinkering and fiddling tomorrow hopefully it should be sorted.
The tread lock? Just a thought but would a small blob of superglue do the job?
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Post by CD on Mar 22, 2014 12:21:43 GMT
Threadlock wont glue faulty screws into place but it does allow a little less twist on the screws. Be VERY careful, use the wrong stuff and you'll never get it apart again. Superglue uses the same technology TBH I'd not take the chance.
Its counter-intuitive but engines will rev under no load when running weak. The revs dying as soon as you try to use the power hints at weak fuel/air mixture. Its more obvious in 2 strokes but 4 strokes also do it.
If its really bad full sets of carbs are not silly money.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 22:09:16 GMT
The latest update so far.
Well to be honest I aint done much over the last couple of days due to bad weather and the new job but I did start it up at the weekend and it fired up without much of a struggle, I will be back at it tomorrow,as long as it stays nice 'oop north.
Im also thinking of investing in a 'colour tune' set as Ive heard theyre supposed to rather good just in case it is running weak. Has any one had any experience with these,good or bad?
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Post by CD on Mar 25, 2014 13:57:16 GMT
Colortune is totally useless.
The standard downpipes had individual tapping plugs so each cylinder could be set for CO etc. All done at the factory. Finding anyone with a suitable gas sensor probe is unlikely. It cant be done at the tail pipe because the cylinders merge and each carb has to be set.
A replacement set of carbs will save many tears. They are on eBay for about £60.
One single carb would have been a great deal easier for everyone but Yamaha don't do that even on engines that don't make enough power to need separate throttles.
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 26, 2014 20:48:42 GMT
Colortune is totally useless. The standard downpipes had individual tapping plugs so each cylinder could be set for CO etc. All done at the factory. Finding anyone with a suitable gas sensor probe is unlikely. It cant be done at the tail pipe because the cylinders merge and each carb has to be set. A replacement set of carbs will save many tears. They are on eBay for about £60. One single carb would have been a great deal easier for everyone but Yamaha don't do that even on engines that don't make enough power to need separate throttles. Or I can sell a set of 98 carbs for £30 but would need collected or couriered |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2014 12:44:57 GMT
Sorry for the late reply about the carbs,yep im interested! Im assuming they will fit my 1994 bike though?
But as long as theyre good to fit and get the old beast running properly then its got to be worth a shot,so yes please Ill take them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2014 22:06:26 GMT
As a great man once said 'sod it!'
I fired the bike up yesterday and its back to running on 2 cylinders but now its running on 3 & 4!
Anyway,I have decided to replace the carbs and coils as Ive had enough of pulling my hair out with it and thats exactly what my other half did years ago on her fz400 and she said the job was a good 'un (shes usually right anyway!) so Ill look into wether or not Bigmicks 1998 carbs will do the trick and source some more coils,hopefully I may get to ride it sometime this year?
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Post by stukeith on May 10, 2014 23:10:48 GMT
This is the exact same issues that i am having with my 94 divvy, its firing on 3 cylinders, sometimes its 1 sometimes its 4 not firing, I'm thinking it may be electrical
issue. did you sort your issue?
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Post by luke906uk on May 30, 2014 6:03:37 GMT
Have you checked the outer carbs are getting fuel? I had the same issue on my 96 model. I literally pulled up at home then the bike started running really rough and would only run with full choke for around 15 seconds at a time which was odd as it was fully warmed up after a run! Was very frustrating at the time, I just couldn't work out what was going on. I then noticed only 2&3 were firing so automatically thought coil gone. After around an hour of fault diagnosis, checking resistances voltage, whether the plus were sparking or not. Everything was correct, electrically. Then looked at fuel sidr of things and found a split in the vacuum hose from no 1 intake manifold to petcock. Only a small amount of fuel was getting to the pump because of the lack of vacuum. Which was why only 2&3 were firing as there was not enough fuel to get to 1&4! Replaced the hose, primed the carbs and it fired up on all first time! Was Simple in the end. Im not sure whether the vacuum pump works the same as the electric pump though. Hope you get it sorted.
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