memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 16:02:26 GMT
I bought a spares or repair a couple of weeks ago on a 2000 plate. I've got a problem with starting on the button. When I push button the oil light comes on and the Green neutral light is on and that's all. Bridge the solenoid and bike starts fine. I've fitted new starter button assembly and still the same. I've been checking earths with meter and I'm worn out and feel the need to suck on a sawn off.
There is another issue with it as well whether it's the problem or caused the problem I don't know. The Reg/Rectifier was disconnected completely and I mean the cables were cut. When I took plug out I found the black lead and the opposite with from the alternator was melted...obviously melted through possibly a short...can anyone help please??? Thanks Andy |
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Post by rowlf on Aug 25, 2013 16:16:49 GMT
I bought a spares or repair a couple of weeks ago on a 2000 plate. I've got a problem with starting on the button. When I push button the oil light comes on and the Green neutral light is on and that's all. Bridge the solenoid and bike starts fine. I've fitted new starter button assembly and still the same. I've been checking earths with meter and I'm worn out and feel the need to suck on a sawn off.
There is another issue with it as well whether it's the problem or caused the problem I don't know. The Reg/Rectifier was disconnected completely and I mean the cables were cut. When I took plug out I found the black lead and the opposite with from the alternator was melted...obviously melted through possibly a short...can anyone help please??? Thanks Andy There is a common fault with the connector block under the side panel (blue wire) which is part of the starter circuit. You will need to change the alternator wires before anything else. The regulator controls the voltage so a fault could cause all sorts of problems. Test it and replace if necessary. |
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 16:29:08 GMT
Tested the button in different gear and clutch in and the oil light still comes on and still doesn't start. I have 3 white wires those go to alternator windings and there is a black and a red wire. Over the black and red I read 13 volts and nothing over whites.
How does one check for voltage output from alternator? Thanks for speedy reply...Andy
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 16:43:59 GMT
I bought a spares or repair a couple of weeks ago on a 2000 plate. I've got a problem with starting on the button. When I push button the oil light comes on and the Green neutral light is on and that's all. Bridge the solenoid and bike starts fine. I've fitted new starter button assembly and still the same. I've been checking earths with meter and I'm worn out and feel the need to suck on a sawn off.
There is another issue with it as well whether it's the problem or caused the problem I don't know. The Reg/Rectifier was disconnected completely and I mean the cables were cut. When I took plug out I found the black lead and the opposite with from the alternator was melted...obviously melted through possibly a short...can anyone help please??? Thanks Andy There is a common fault with the connector block under the side panel (blue wire) which is part of the sidestand and neutral detector circuit. To test this, put the bike in gear, sidestand up, pull the clutch lever in and then press the starter. That uses a completely different circuit. If that works you need to check the blue wires in the terminal block under the seat RH side. You will need to change the alternator wires before anything else. The regulator controls the voltage so a fault could cause all sorts of problems. Test it and replace if necessary. |
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 16:45:52 GMT
Can you tell what is the correct readings from white wires and black and red wires from the alternator please. Thanks Andy
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 16:56:22 GMT
Can you tell what is the correct readings from white wires and black and red wires from the alternator please. Thanks Andy Also on more investigation I have found someone has chopped the sidestand wires and tucked them away...Great more problems. Any ideas?? Thanks |
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Post by rowlf on Aug 25, 2013 17:14:28 GMT
Tested the button in different gear and clutch in and the oil light still comes on and still doesn't start. I have 3 white wires those go to alternator windings and there is a black and a red wire. Over the black and red I read 13 volts and nothing over whites. How does one check for voltage output from alternator? Thanks for speedy reply...Andy If the regulator wires are cut you wont be getting anything from the alternator. Period. The standing voltage should be 12 volts or so. 13v is OK, I assume that is with the bike "off". Note. The 13v will be coming from the battery, it is at the other end of the circuit! You can test the alternator output by removing the "main" fuse and testing on the alternator side. The battery will run everything for a while, at least once the bike starts. The fuse is mainly there to prevent against too much from the alternator. To check alternator put the meter on the battery when the bike is running (more than tickover!), should be between 14.3 and 15.3 volts when charging! No idea what white wire voltage would be, that is direct from the stators and voltage is controlled by the regulator/rectifier. Ignore it, very unlikely to be an issue. I believe your reg/rectifier is faulty, which is why it was disconnected. There could be a short, as you said, but I don't think so as there is not much in that circuit up to the main fuse. It goes direct from the regulator to the fuse, before going to the battery (to charge it) and then to supply the ignition, lights etc when the bike is running. If you have 12v at the regulator that fuse (and the wire) seems OK. You need to fit a new regulator (almost certainly) and replace the wires before going anywhere else. There are three main starter issues you have left 1 A faulty starter switch. 2 A faulty starter "cut off" relay 3 A faulty starter relay (solenoid) er 4, a faulty wire. To check solenoid, put the positive on the red wire, negative on the blue and white. When you press the starter you should get 12v (or so). If so can you hear solenoid click, if not it is faulty. If no 12v it could be the starter cut out relay or starter switch that is bugg faulty. A quick, effective test is to touch a wire from negative (battery etc) to the blue and white wire on the solenoid. That should operate the solenoid and turn the starter (ignition on or off!). That bypasses pretty much everything and will prove starter solenoid is working or not. |
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 18:09:20 GMT
Tested the button in different gear and clutch in and the oil light still comes on and still doesn't start. I have 3 white wires those go to alternator windings and there is a black and a red wire. Over the black and red I read 13 volts and nothing over whites. How does one check for voltage output from alternator? Thanks for speedy reply...Andy If the regulator wires are cut you wont be getting anything from the alternator. Period. The standing voltage should be 12 volts or so. 13v is OK, I assume that is with the bike "off". Note. The 13v will be coming from the battery, it is at the other end of the circuit! You can test the alternator output by removing the "main" fuse and testing on the alternator side. The battery will run everything for a while, at least once the bike starts. The fuse is mainly there to prevent against too much from the alternator. To check alternator put the meter on the battery when the bike is running (more than tickover!), should be between 14.3 and 15.3 volts when charging! No idea what white wire voltage would be, that is direct from the stators and voltage is controlled by the regulator/rectifier. Ignore it, very unlikely to be an issue. I believe you reg/rectifier is faulty, which is why it was disconnected and there could be a short, as you said, but I don't think so. There is not much in that circuit up to the main fuse, it goes direct from the regulator to the fuse, before going to the battery (to charge it) and then to supply the ignition, lights etc when the bike is running. If you have 12v at the regulator that fuse seems ok. There are three main starter issues you have left 1 A faulty starter switch. 2 A faulty starter "cut off" relay 3 A faulty starter relay (solenoid) er 4, a faulty wire. To check solenoid, put the positive on the red wire, negative on the blue and white. When you press the starter you should get 12v (or so). If so can you hear solenoid click, if not it is faulty. If no 12v it could be the starter cut out relay or starter switch that is bugg faulty. A quick, effective test is to touch a wire from negative (battery etc) to the blue and white wire on the solenoid. That should operate the solenoid and turn the starter (ignition on or off!). That bypasses pretty much everything and will prove starter solenoid is working or not. |
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 18:25:33 GMT
I changed right hand controls so its not the starter button. It will start when I bridge the solenoid and I believe the solenoid is positive ganged so the blue and white goes negative to create the circuit. When I short blue and white to negative the solenoid clicks but doesn't start engine but I do know the battery is knackered...The black and red on the rec/reg plug reads 11.97 volts..
When I disconnect thinner black earth lead from battery the oil light doesn't come on when I push start button...I'm lost I need a bike sparky...aaaaaaaaaargh
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Post by rowlf on Aug 25, 2013 18:27:40 GMT
Can you tell what is the correct readings from white wires and black and red wires from the alternator please. Thanks Andy Also on more investigation I have found someone has chopped the sidestand wires and tucked them away...Great more problems. Any ideas?? Thanks Are the wires joined together ? if so the sidestand has been bypassed, so it wont stop it starting but it is a bit dangerous on the road so you should replace the switch, which I assume was faulty. If not, join the wires together for now whilst testing. Who owned the bike. Hope it wasn't someone on here. |
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Post by rowlf on Aug 25, 2013 18:43:06 GMT
I changed right hand controls so its not the starter button. It will start when I bridge the solenoid and I believe the solenoid is positive ganged so the blue and white goes negative to create the circuit. When I short blue and white to negative the solenoid clicks but doesn't start engine but I do know the battery is knackered...The black and red on the rec/reg plug reads 11.97 volts.. When I disconnect thinner black earth lead from battery the oil light doesn't come on when I push start button...I'm lost I need a bike sparky...aaaaaaaaaargh Yes, blue white goes to negative to start. If the starter turn when you short the solenoid it should turn when you bypass the blue/white wire. If not, as it clicks, the solenoid contact is faulty. Best to make sure battery is good first as 11.97 is too low! the resistance in the solenoid contact might be just enough to stop the starter, just. Although I doubt it. You need to check the wires are tight too ! |
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Post by rowlf on Aug 25, 2013 18:59:20 GMT
BTW does the solenoid click when you try on the starter ? You do seem to have a lot of electrical problems on this bike. Any history as to why ? Still, work through them one at a time, starting with the starter. Connect the sidestand wires together first, if not already connected. Charge the battery, then try turning it again by bypassing the blue wh wire. If no good change the solenoid. Several on ebay for about £15. Regulators £22 Sidestand switches £5 Batteries £25 Got to start somewhere  |
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 23:08:30 GMT
Ive got a spare right set of controls and tomorrow Im going to cut the wires and in and re-connect one at a time. Then fingers crossed I will find the offending short circuit......thanks for your input...Andy
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memphis64
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Post by memphis64 on Aug 25, 2013 23:17:44 GMT
Also found under the seat the sidestand plug connector cut one side and soldered short circuit so not worried about that anymore really. What I found though. I re-connected suspect reg/rect and after about 5-6 mins of engine running reg/rect got really really warm. I think reg/rect is pooped don't you??
I'm getting new battery Tuesday and fingers crossed will sort problems out...Thank you will keep informed as results may help someone else...Cheers Andy
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Post by neilmud Lord Protector on Aug 26, 2013 0:07:31 GMT
It could be a fried battery as well others here have had batteries putting out 13+ volts but one cell has been down & they fail under load shorting the starter could be just enough to let it start but not on the button.
Neil
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Post by rowlf on Aug 26, 2013 0:11:13 GMT
Also found under the seat the sidestand plug connector cut one side and soldered short circuit so not worried about that anymore really. What I found though. I re-connected suspect reg/rect and after about 5-6 mins of engine running reg/rect got really really warm. I think reg/rect is pooped don't you?? I'm getting new battery Tuesday and fingers crossed will sort problems out...Thank you will keep informed as results may help someone else...Cheers Andy It gets hot due to the current flowing through so it will get especially warm when the alternator is working hard trying to charge the battery. This is why it is a bad idea to run a bike with a poor or nearly flat battery as this puts a lot of strain on the charging circuit. The regulator should cool down when the battery is fully charged but if the battery is bad it will take a long time. Best to charge it as best as you can first and a new one is better ! Check that the voltage on the battery is 14.3 to 15.3 when the bike is running. If that is correct alternator and regulator are good. |
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Post by bobh on Aug 26, 2013 10:22:33 GMT
IIRC, if the oil light comes on when youi press the starter button, it usually menas the kill switch is "off". In this case you've changed the switches and I assume the switch is "on", but it could indicate that there's a break (or short) in the wire to it.
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Post by chevybow64 on Sept 11, 2013 20:18:42 GMT
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Post by chevybow64 on 2 minutes ago
Thank you everyone who tried to help....For anyone else with this problem...I bought another right control and chopped the wires and beared all the wires and then plugged it in to loom and introduced one wire at a time and pushed the start button until oil light came on..Then I removed all wires one at a time pushing start button each time leaving me with the black and a blue/white wire which was incidently the wire that passed thru the solenoid to relay box..
I therefore introduced another blue/white wire via solenoid to relay box and hey presto the bike starts on the button...Thanks again people
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