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Post by robjamez on Apr 22, 2013 21:21:23 GMT
Hi all.
I'm expecting to do a 3500-4000 mile tour on my 600 in July and I have no idea about the history of my chain and sprockets. Which seems like a good reason to replace them.
So what's the best option? Is a £100 set really twice as good as a £50 set or is it worth a cheap set and a spare? Gold? Black? O-ring, X-ring....??
Erm....All I know is that it shouldn't be a clippy one, so any and all advice very much appreciated. Thanks.
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Post by rowlf on Apr 22, 2013 21:55:37 GMT
Well if you look at a recent post on here by soggybiker who used a cheap chain. It broke and ended up wrapped all round the front sprocket. Not the sort of thing you want to happen on a long run   diversionclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=19923IMHO you cannot beat a DID X ring chain, state of the art, very well regarded and used by most bike racing teams. I am going to buy a chain and sprocket set like the one in the link below, for £79, for my 600. It's a heavy duty X ring chain which is supposed to reduce friction and power loss and last longer. Gold is cosmetic and costs about £10 more., quite nice though, if you like that sort of thing ;D www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-XJ600-XJ-600-DIVERSION-92-03-NEW-DID-X-RING-HEAVY-DUTY-CHAIN-SPROCKET-KIT-/200867736955?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2ec4a66d7bFor such a long trip, I would strongly recommend fitting a Loobman or a Tutoro chain oiler for just over £20 or an automatic Tutoro or Scottoiler for £70. That way your chain will end up in pretty much exactly the same condition as when you start and prevent risk of breakage. It will extend life and should ensure a trouble free, reliable trip and a well lubed x ring chain (and the sprockets) will last up to 20,000 miles. Most companies supply a standard set with a 48 tooth rear sprocket and a 110 link chain or if you ask, a set with a 46 tooth rear sprocket and 108 links. The advantage of 46 teeth is slightly taller gearing and therefore slightly better economy on a long run plus a more relaxed ride. You might lose a tiny bit in acceleration though. 46 teeth were fitted as standard to the 600 in some European countries. However, if you are going two up with lots of luggage and steep hills it might not be so good. Strangely though, the European countries that fit a 46 tooth rear as standard are Switzerland and Austria. Both of which have lots of steep bumpy bits. Someone on this forum uses a 46 tooth rear sprocket and says the bike is better. That is what I am going to fit when I change mine. A DID X ring chain with a 46 tooth rear sprocket and a chain oiler. Have a great trip  Rowlf |
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Post by HRHpenfold on Apr 22, 2013 22:21:14 GMT
Buy the best you can afford, from a reputable supplier, if its cheap, it's because it's either fake, or they have small print stating if out of stock they can send you an similar quality substitution, which will be a cheap brand!  |
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Post by pol on Apr 23, 2013 0:53:15 GMT
"Gold is cosmetic and costs about £10 more."
yea, i somehow ended up with one of those on my 600, looks pretty horrible i think! I'm actually glad it gets covered in crud not long after a clean! ;D
as the other two have said, don't buy cheap, not for chain & sprockets!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 4:58:56 GMT
I use DID X Ring. The gold chain is their heavy duty range and worth the extra money IMHO.
They no longer sell O ring chains as there was some failures a few years ago with links seizing, all 2009/2010 Yamaha XJ6s came with the O ring DID as standard, most failed early in their life.
I always buy from eBay seller - aughacashel
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Post by m40man on Apr 23, 2013 7:13:13 GMT
Erm....All I know is that it shouldn't be a clippy one ... I haven't had any problems with spring-clip cnnecting links on those 600c bikes I've used them on. A well-fitted clip link is better than a poorly peened soft link, in my view. Though I use soft links on bigger more powerful bikes. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 8:06:02 GMT
Erm....All I know is that it shouldn't be a clippy one ... I haven't had any problems with spring-clip cnnecting links on those 600c bikes I've used them on. A well-fitted clip link is better than a poorly peened soft link, in my view. Though I use soft links on bigger more powerful bikes. Jim dashes out and checks the chain on his Fazer!! |
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Post by m40man on Apr 23, 2013 8:25:28 GMT
Jim dashes out and checks the chain on his Fazer!! ......... & Keith is on all fours in his mancave, squinting in the dark  . |
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Post by CD on Apr 23, 2013 9:06:00 GMT
While its apart, check the rear sprocket carrier bearing. Also take the chain adjusters out of the swing arm to clean and grease with antiseize. When its all done, go for a short ride and check the chain tension with rider sat on the bike. Its all too easy to have the chain too tight.
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Post by robjamez on Apr 23, 2013 17:19:14 GMT
Thanks. Lots of useful info so the x-ring's the way to go.
I was originally going to splash out on another bike for the trip but thought it would be cheaper getting the (stolen/used in a bank job/recovered) divvy back on the road. Oh how wrong I was! Still, don't think I'd have the heart to let it go now.
Anyone want a BMW C1? ;D
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Post by bobh on Apr 23, 2013 20:20:48 GMT
As a Tyke, I would only change a chain if it's showing signs of being terminally worn, which are:
- If you pull it away from the rear sprocket, does it lift more than a mm? (Actually, 2 mm is my absolute limit, but if you're off on a long trip, best be on the safe side).
- Are there any significant tight spots? If the tension, as measured on a paddock stand (NOT the centre stand, where the tension is usually somewhat slacker and thus less easy to judge) varies by more than 10-15 mm, then the answer's "Yes". Even brand new chains can exhibit some variation in tension, so don't panic about a minor tight spot. There are other ways of checking this, but this is my standard test.
- Do the rollers rattle around on the pins? The best way to gauge this is by riding behind, and listening for any noticeable "swishing" noise, but you can usually get a good idea from how sloppily they rotate.
- Are there any tight links? If so, and they don't easily free off with a bit of oil and waggling, the chain is scrap.
- Haynes also has a method of checking "stretch" (which is not really stretch at all, but actually accumulated pin/bush wear), but if the above criteria are OK then I'd say you're good to go.
So that's the chain. But check the sprockets as well, particularly the front one. ANY sign of hooked teeth and it needs changing, because it will munch your chain in no time. But a new front sprocket at around £12 is cheap compared to a new chain.
To answer one part of your question, a £50 set might not even get you through your 4,000 mile tour, whereas a £100+ set should last 20-30,000 miles with a bit of TLC. So, yes, the more expensive one is worth the cash.
My tuppence-worth, anyway.
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Post by neilmud Lord Protector on Apr 23, 2013 20:54:17 GMT
As a Tyke, I would only change a chain if it's showing signs of being terminally worn, which are: - If you pull it away from the rear sprocket, does it lift more than a mm? (Actually, 2 mm is my absolute limit, but if you're off on a long trip, best be on the safe side). - Are there any significant tight spots? If the tension, as measured on a paddock stand (NOT the centre stand, where the tension is usually somewhat slacker and thus less easy to judge) varies by more than 10-15 mm, then the answer's "Yes". Even brand new chains can exhibit some variation in tension, so don't panic about a minor tight spot. There are other ways of checking this, but this is my standard test. - Do the rollers rattle around on the pins? The best way to gauge this is by riding behind, and listening for any noticeable "swishing" noise, but you can usually get a good idea from how sloppily they rotate. - Are there any tight links? If so, and they don't easily free off with a bit of oil and waggling, the chain is scrap. - Haynes also has a method of checking "stretch" (which is not really stretch at all, but actually accumulated pin/bush wear), but if the above criteria are OK then I'd say you're good to go. So that's the chain. But check the sprockets as well, particularly the front one. ANY sign of hooked teeth and it needs changing, because it will munch your chain in no time. But a new front sprocket at around £12 is cheap compared to a new chain. To answer one part of your question, a £50 set might not even get you through your 4,000 mile tour, whereas a £100+ set should last 20-30,000 miles with a bit of TLC. So, yes, the more expensive one is worth the cash. My tuppence-worth, anyway. Woo! to much info... Me has it got oil on it, give it a kick to see if it feels to slack or tight, can I see some teeth on the sprocket & does it grind as I wheel it out of the garage ;D Neil |
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Grumbleweed
Boy Racer
Grumbleweed, 2009 model XJ6S, brought new in 2010.
Posts: 229
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Post by Grumbleweed on Apr 24, 2013 17:12:52 GMT
I bought a cheap X ring chain for my old Divi and it lasted one day! It spat off one of the X rings which (luckily) I found stuck to some greasy smeg by the front sprocket. Not good.
I disagree with the 20 - 30000 miles comment for a decent set. Even though I look after my chains I would always end up with seized link or two after a few thousand miles.
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Post by alan292 on Apr 24, 2013 17:49:24 GMT
Erm....All I know is that it shouldn't be a clippy one ... I haven't had any problems with spring-clip cnnecting links on those 600c bikes I've used them on. A well-fitted clip link is better than a poorly peened soft link, in my view. Though I use soft links on bigger more powerful bikes. I thought about buying a clip link when I replaced the chain and sprockets on my 600 just over a year ago because trying to peen over the ends of the rivited link was a very frustrating task...the problem I experienced was keeping the wee rubber orings and the plate onto the link tight enough to close the ends over...I tried grips vices and sockets all to no avail.....the reason I eventually bit the bullet and bought a chain riviting / splitting tool and did the job right was the manual has a warning ,in bold type , saying " NEVER install a drive chain which uses a clip-type link"....I dare say the clip link works but can anyone ever take the risk of experiencing what happened to Soggy's chain...  |
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Post by m40man on Apr 24, 2013 18:47:12 GMT
...I dare say the clip link works but can anyone ever take the risk of experiencing what happened to Soggy's chain... Except that Soggy's didn't fail at a clip link  . |
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Post by TwoHat on Apr 24, 2013 19:04:59 GMT
All of the above are good advice, and are also the reason why I have a bike with shaft drive!
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Post by alan292 on Apr 25, 2013 8:00:46 GMT
...I dare say the clip link works but can anyone ever take the risk of experiencing what happened to Soggy's chain... Except that Soggy's didn't fail at a clip link . Thats true...I only used Soggy's chain as an example as it was recent ...if the clip link were to pop off/fail the end result could well be similar.... |
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Post by rowlf on Apr 25, 2013 8:37:16 GMT
Following on ori's recommendations about aughacashel (Bitzforbikes) on Ebay I see they list a heavy duty, upgraded (so more durable over oem) D.I.D. X ring chain and sprockets for about £85. They will also change the gearing with different sprockets if desired. Sounds ideal for you robjamez. I am ordering this exact set for my bike but with 46 teeth on the rear sprocket and 108 links to raise the gearing a touch. I would give you a "long term test report" but you will reach 4000 miles about 3900 miles before I do ;D www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140652021055?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649I have also ordered a Loobman oiler for £19.99 (inc p & p) so am I hoping that this combination will give me around 20,000 miles. I actually expect to expire before the chain |
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Post by CD on Apr 30, 2013 15:42:59 GMT
Stick with standard ratios. The engine wont come fully on song until its doing 7000 so running it slower is keeping it out of its most efficient range. What's gained in lower friction losses is more than lost in pumping losses.
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Post by rowlf on Apr 30, 2013 17:08:12 GMT
Stick with standard ratios. The engine wont come fully on song until its doing 7000 so running it slower is keeping it out of its most efficient range. What's gained in lower friction losses is more than lost in pumping losses. A 46 tooth rear cog is standard gearing in some countries. Nothing wrong with adjusting gearing to fit your riding style or preferences. Might even miss the dreaded vibration at your favourite cruising speed. Keeping a bike in its "efficient" power band means higher revs for better acceleration or lower revs for better MPG, you can't normally have both unless you fit more gears. Anyway going to 46 gears is what, 4 or 5 % higher. Hardly a huge difference. Someone here uses 46 teeth rear and says the bike feels better. |
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Post by rowlf on Apr 30, 2013 17:12:22 GMT
Stick with standard ratios. The engine wont come fully on song until its doing 7000 so running it slower is keeping it out of its most efficient range. What's gained in lower friction losses is more than lost in pumping losses. A 46 tooth rear cog is standard gearing in some countries. Nothing wrong with adjusting gearing to fit your riding style or preferences. Might even miss the dreaded vibration at your favourite cruising speed. Bike manufacturers don't know what sort of riding you do or how much load you will carry so compromise, often going for acceleration over mpg. Makes the magazine figures look good. They sometimes gear them for odd purposes. I had a Suzuki Burgman scooter for a while (bad foot) and they had gearing set to lowest revs at (I think) 56 kph because there is a noise test in Japan at that speed. This ruined mid range performance. Fitting a modified variator absolutely transformed the bike. Keeping a bike in its "efficient" power band means higher revs for better acceleration or lower revs for better MPG, you can't normally have both unless you fit more gears. Anyway going to 46 *gears is what, 4 or 5 % higher. Hardly a huge difference. Someone here uses 46 teeth rear and says the bike feels better. * by "gears" of course I meant teeth ;D |
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Post by teejayexc on Apr 30, 2013 18:20:01 GMT
46 gears! You're gonna be too busy to notice the revs |
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Post by rowlf on Apr 30, 2013 18:24:56 GMT
46 gears! You're gonna be too busy to notice the revs  er, perhaps I meant teeth yes, definitely, teeth ;D |
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Post by CD on May 7, 2013 10:48:43 GMT
I had a 600S and found the power/torque suited the overall gear ratios. Bigger at the back would def have been too revvy but smaller would have made 6th into an overdrive. I often dropped it down to 5th for acceleration so had no wish to make it even less useful (no dig intended ) My Kettle 750 has the standard chain & sprox but 5th is so high to be almost useless. It will need a larger back sprocket or put up with a 4 speed bike. |
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er, perhaps I meant teeth