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Post by alan292 on Apr 20, 2013 11:59:03 GMT
After cleaning all the grime from the oil cooler pipes I replaced the banjos with new copper washers , however the origional size was unavailable in the local bike shop but they advised a smaller one would do the job as the internal size was the same ....I wasnt entirely convinced but decided to try them to see....everything ok for about 500 mls then oil spewing from the banjo fittings , but only between the radiator and the banjo, not between the banjo and the bolt head..Ive stripped everything down 3 times and tried again but still its leaking....my left boot and leg were doused in oil this morning from just a 4 mile journey. Ive picked up both fibre washers and rubber washers which are indentical to the origional size , gonna try both although I reckon the fibre ones may leak....only other thought Ive had is that the face of the fitting on the radiator had indentations which are allowing the oil to seep....I wonder if it would be worth removing it again and sanding the face with wet n dry paper...anyone any thoughts...  |
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Post by bobh on Apr 20, 2013 13:38:04 GMT
Strange that it started leaking, and not just a small weep, after a decent mileage. You'd expect it would show up straight away. But I'm not really surprised that re-fitting (using the original washers) didn't cure it - copper work-hardens, so you need to anneal it (heat to red heat and allow to cool naturally) to re-soften it.
As it occurs only at the banjo/oil cooler joint face I'd suspect either misalignment or, as you suggest, some surface imperfections. If the surface is bad, and you can't clean it up, you could try a dab of Loctite pipe sealer - or maybe even carefully-applied PTFE tape might do it.
If you are going to try to clean up the joint face, try to keep any residual marks concentric, not across the face. And of course, don't get any debris, especially abrasive material, in the cooler.
I wouldn't trust rubber washers - rubber is not strong enough without metal support (as in a Dowty seal). Fibre might work, if you can get it to stand up to the tightening torque and not settle later on.
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Post by alan292 on Apr 20, 2013 16:16:59 GMT
Hi Bob...the copper washers I rebuilt with were new ones, only undersized on the external diameter....I actually think the banjo might have been weeping since I rebuilt it but as its hidden from veiw by the fairing Ive confused it with the ACF50 which was running off everything.....add into the mix the rain and wind we have had Ive just not paid enough attention and only wiped the engine and pipes down with blue roll....  Ive had it in bits this afternoon and had a good swatch about everything....decided to "try" the rubber washers ( which are the same size as the origional copper washers) and it bloody leaked !!!!!...although this set me onto something else as I had replaced the oil cooler with one from a doner bike yesterday and the aluminium tops ( where the banjos thread in) has a hairline crack right through the length of the body....Ive replaced my origional oil cooler , reconnected everything using the rubber washers and atm everything is bone dry.... ;D I gunked the bike and have washed and hosed it down now...it does half smell better ...  |
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Post by christhedivvy on Apr 28, 2013 11:56:19 GMT
Done the same with mine. On closer inspection I have found the cooler is cracked. GUTTED  |
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Post by alan292 on Apr 28, 2013 12:31:25 GMT
Done the same with mine. On closer inspection I have found the cooler is cracked. GUTTED Chris thats exactly where mine was cracked.  ..not sure but I would imagine it could be aluminum welded...if mine goes again Ill be searching for the adapter to do away with the cooler and pipes altogether... |
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Post by christhedivvy on Apr 28, 2013 12:35:21 GMT
Think I'm going to stump up for another cooler. There's some aftermarket ones from L&M spares £140 ish Or a genuine one haven't made my mind up yet.
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Post by rowlf on Apr 28, 2013 12:58:39 GMT
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Post by christhedivvy on Apr 28, 2013 13:56:48 GMT
Just seen the price from Yammy.....£320!!!!  Jesus. they are robbing gits. |
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Post by CD on Apr 28, 2013 16:23:33 GMT
The Diversion 900 with it's tilted forward engine has the front frame tubes further forward than say the Bandit. This causes problems with universal oil coolers. Being fat they have to sit a long way down to clear the forks on full lock. Then they are too close to the exhausts or front wheel on full bump. I did some working out with cardboard mock-ups with a pattern bandit cooler in mind. But it was touch and go for space. Eventually, I settled on the PWR brand transmission coolers from Australia. I chose this one www.interex.co.uk/motorsport/shop/product.php?pid=282 as it has about the same tube area as the original Yamaha cooler. But this would probably fit www.interex.co.uk/motorsport/shop/product.php?pid=283. I fitted the pipe stubs at the bottom - again to clear the steering and used flouro line silicone hose elbows from ASH with 10mm copper tube down to the oil filter boss. Offcuts from the elbows joined the bottom ends and sleeved the cylinder block bracket. Stainless worm clips do the sealing but I chose ones with the max size just smaller than the actual hose diameter. Wind them almost right out and they will pull in nicely. Bigger clips go D shape and leak. On the first engine start, I hung the cooler upside down to avoid trapped air at the top. The cooler was hot all the way up so it worked ok. To get the old pipes off the filter stubs you will need to remove the filter boss. I hack-sawed the ferrules diagonally dont cut too deep or the stub pipes could get knicked. See |
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Post by rowlf on Apr 28, 2013 17:41:13 GMT
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Post by christhedivvy on Apr 28, 2013 17:56:27 GMT
Think I'll just buy a pattern replacement....
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Post by donnyden on Apr 28, 2013 18:45:18 GMT
bobh, regarding this information "copper work-hardens, so you need to anneal it (heat to red heat and allow to cool naturally) to re-soften it."
Copper is softened by heating and immediately quenching in cold water. just thought I'd mention it in case anyone tries your suggestion.
Den
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Post by CD on Apr 30, 2013 12:56:54 GMT
Heating copper softens it, but quenching hardens it again. Just heat until it tarnishes and allow to cool slowly. This cooler has about the same tube surface area as the original but sitting in a clear airflow should be more effective. I used a woven stainless wire mesh in front to protect from stones, etc. {img}http://www.interex.co.uk/motorsport/content/images/products/280x110x19mm_38barb_360x360.jpg{/img} www.interex.co.uk/motorsport/content/downloads/products/0525_Address.pdfThe 150 high might also fit and would provide more cooling. (this version has the boss type fittings) www.interex.co.uk/motorsport/content/downloads/products/0529_Address.pdf. The snag is the frame tubes turn backwards, just about where the 110mm cooler bottom edge ends. Anything longer hangs out in front and risks getting hit by the front mudguard. I had to use a 1" x 1" tag to attach the top edge to the headstock frame web. Bolting it on directly looked great until I turned the steering to full lock. It needs a lot of space up top.  You can just about see the two penny washer at the top. The bottom side brackets are hidden. This method with all silicone tube was Mk1. It was much neater (and cheaper) with 10mm copper from the silicone elbows down to the filter boss. This also shows the mesh guard. |
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Post by donnyden on Apr 30, 2013 18:01:51 GMT
CD, I don't want to get into an argument about this but I am sticking to my guns. Whereas copper will be normalised by slow cooling it will get softer the faster it is cooled. Quenching also helps to prevent scale forming and will in no way harden it. Copper needs to be worked to harden it it can't be done with heat.
Den
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Post by teejayexc on Apr 30, 2013 18:14:29 GMT
CD, I don't want to get into an argument about this but ?... Oh go on, ages since we had a flounce  |
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Post by pilgrim on Apr 30, 2013 21:17:43 GMT
CD, I don't want to get into an argument about this but ?... Oh go on, ages since we had a flounce Stirrer! Let the boys discuss things..........   |
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Post by CD on Apr 30, 2013 22:27:54 GMT
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Post by donnyden on May 1, 2013 17:46:05 GMT
I'm not sure what flouncing is but it doesn't sound threatening, so my guns shall remain holstered. ;D
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Post by neilmud Lord Protector on May 1, 2013 19:37:14 GMT
Flouncing IE. having a hissy fit, throwing your toys out of the pram & leaving or threatening to leave the site & never come on here again if you have been criticised or contradicted.
You have to be established to flounce or no one will notice, reappearing with a name change or multiple name changes does not constitute a flounce. Saying you are going to flounce & not logging on for a couple of days is not a flounce.
For a proper flounce you have to complain to admin & all who will listen send multiple PMs to all & sundry hoping that someone will beg you to stay & then stay because the forum would not be the same without you & you would not want to deprive the other members of your wit & wisdom (even though nobody actually asked you to stay in a PM or open forum )and as you have a heart of gold & forgiving nature you are turning the other cheek & staying here.
;D
Neil
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Post by CD on May 4, 2013 18:34:04 GMT
Just to add - Neil has never done a flounce.
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Post by max900 on May 5, 2013 6:17:18 GMT
Just to add - Neil has never done a flounce. no but he is obviously watching others attempts at doing one ;D after i had a leaky cooler a few years ago (turned out to be the head gasket was gone :  i bought several original coolers on fleabay haven't needed to use any of them yet  |
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Post by bluevinny on May 15, 2013 15:03:59 GMT
My oil cooler also developed cracks down the inside threads of both bosses after I removed it to do the valve clearances  . Just recently fitted a second hand one (had to wait a long while until one popped up at a reasonable price) and it's now leak free  . Probably need to replace the oil feed pipes soon as the joints are looking rusty, following the method described by CD. |
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Post by CD on May 17, 2013 21:25:24 GMT
The lugs on my cooler cracked when I removed it to do the valve clearances. It seems to be designed to fail or maybe the aluminium has work hardened. My solution was a completely new slimline cooler in front of the frame. Covered elsewhere
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..not sure but I would imagine it could be aluminum welded...if mine goes again Ill be searching for the adapter to do away with the cooler and pipes altogether... 
i bought several original coolers on fleabay haven't needed to use any of them yet 
. Just recently fitted a second hand one (had to wait a long while until one popped up at a reasonable price) and it's now leak free 
.