XJ600N electrics dead. Help please?

[duncandisorderly]

Hi

My bike got was left out in the rain, uncovered, for the 2 wettest weeks on the winter. when I tried to start it, I heard a fizzing, electrical shorting noise from the right hand side panel.

I thought that water must have got in somewhere vital, so I removed the battery, covered the bike, and left it for a couple of months to try out.

I tried to start it last weekend, but all electrics were dead, not even an ignition light or indicators.

I assumed the (very old) battery was kaput, so I replaced it with new battery (which reads 11.5 volts on my multimeter), checked all 4 fuses in the fuse box under the seat, and....nothing.....still no ignition light, indicators.

Can anyone suggest what I should do next to get it going?

Thanks

Duncan

[teejayexc]

Block connections under the rear side panels, can't for the life of me remember which side at the moment

Check these connections thoroughly, particularly the blue wire, they're a known problem for corroding under there and give starting issues. By check, I mean give 'em a good tug and clean up, they can look ok but rot from inside out.

Oth, good luck.

[m40man]

Have you replaced the main 30amp fuse?

[rowlf]

Hi Duncan

You need to start by eliminating the two main causes (sorry if any of this is too obvious).
1 Short circuit.
If you connect or disconnect the battery it will spark nicely at the terminals as you have created the basic components of an arc welder.. This will by accompanied by a sizzling crackling noise and a strong smell of burning.
2 Open circuit. Almost certainly the fizzing sound was a wire, connector or terminal burning out which has now gone 'open circuit' where you heard it "fizzing".

The supply goes from the battery to the main fuse in the fuse box then to the ignition switch. From there (when ignition switch 'on') it goes back to the fuse box and splits up for the separate supplies, ignition, lighting etc. If you have 12v at the main fuse and nothing at the other fuses the break has to be in the circuit between the main fuse and the other fuses (via the ignition switch).

To test this, first check that you have 12v at the main fuse (- meter prong on battery negative terminal + prong at main fuse) if OK, as I suspect it will be, check the supply to the other fuses. Do this with - meter prong still on the battery negative and + prong on the other fuses. If no supply (as I suspect) there is an 'open circuit' such as a burnt out wire or connector somewhere between the main fuse and ignition switch OR between the ignition switch and the fuse box. I suspect the latter, which is almost under your "fizzy" side panel. The wires should be red from the main fuse to the ignition switch, brown from the ignition switch back to the fuse box. So use your meter at the connectors or wires to test it. Of course it will likely be all charred somewhere under the panel so it might be visually obvious.

Remember, although there should be 12v at the main fuse at all times, 12v will only be at the other fuses when the ignition switch is "on" so don't forget to turn the ignition switch on when you test there or the first 'open circuit' will turn out to be the ignition switch

A straightened paper clip or bit of stiff wire twisted around the meter + prong helps to make a longer slimmer prong to poke in and check the supply at the connectors. NEVER TRY THIS ON 240V MAINS or the fizzing sound will be you!

If you have a service manual there is a wiring diagram in the back or I can send you one. Sorry for the lack of sophistication in my little diagram (not my day job).

Try this and come back. Good luck

Rowlf

[duncandisorderly]

Thanks for all the advice folks, I'll get busy with the multimeter!

[duncandisorderly]

Rowlf - your were right - 12V at main fuse, nothing at the other fuses. I took off side panel, where I heard the fizzing, and I can see 4 black plastic boxes (relays?) and a load of wires wrapped in insulating tape.

Are the "relays" user serviceable? do they come to pieces? I cant really see if they're burnt out or not. Should I unwrap all the insulating tape or investigate the relays first?

not sure what to do next - I never attempted anything electrical on a car/bike - its all a mystery :-)

Duncan

[duncandisorderly]

Rowlf - and no sparking when fiddling with battery terminals....

[rowlf]

Hi there again duncandisorderly

I would not worry about the relays. If you do not have 12v at the fuse block the fault is a bit more fundamental. i.e. power is not even reaching the relays.

If you look at my bit of 'fine' art (OK, OK, 'Caveman' art ) wiring diagram you will see that it is quite a simple circuit from the main fuse back to the other fuses (via ignition switch).

The fizzing sound may be a red herring (frying presumably sorry!) but the first thing we need to do is find out why there is no 12v arriving back at the fuse block. You will have to get handy now with your trusty multimeter and follow the circuit from main fuse to ignition switch and back again to fuses.

Remember the wire to make a probe and to switch on the ignition! Negative prong on battery at all times.

1 Main fuse. You say you tested this, how? Remember that if the original fuse "blew" because of a short circuit, if you fitted a new fuse it would probably "blow" immediately too! If fuse definitely OK it is probably easiest to test at the ignition switch next.

2. At ignition switch, find the connector (if you can get to it) and check that 12v is arriving (red wire). This test will immediately eliminate half of the circuit. If 12v is arriving at the switch all the red wire part of the offending (alleged) circuit is OK. If not the red wiring part is faulty. Half the wiring tested already

3. If 12v is arriving at the ignition switch (red wire) you need to check it is coming out again (brown wire). If not your ignition switch is fu not working. If 12v is on the brown wire, the break is in the supply back to the fuses (brown wires, connectors etc).

4. You will have to trace the route of the wires (red or brown, depending on what you found at the ignition switch)) to try and find out where the break is. They will go through the odd connector block or connector here or there so you will have to visually trace and find each one along the circuit and check that the supply is on both the input side and the output side of the connector. If not that is obviously where the open circuit is. Remember that there will be likely more than one red or brown cable at the connectors so you will have to be check for that. Unfortunately, there is no obvious way for me to tell from the circuit diagram.

At least you have the naked bike so that makes life a bit easier.

If it is impossible to get at a connector (i.e. at the ignition switch) you can use a pin (I used to use a scriber) poked through the insulation into the wire and touch the meter prong to that. Make sure you get a good contact as it can be a bit tricky so you will need a 'permanent' negative connection for your meter (unless you have three hands)

Good luck. Again, try what you can and come back.

Rowlf

[neilmud Lord Protector]

Make sure you dont get caught out like I did check the earth on battery go for the easy stuff first.

Neil

[duncandisorderly]

Progress! Figured the ignition switch was at fault and started to try and remove the whole switch. I managed to get the lock and top cover off, and inside were a load of corroded copper contacts. I cleaned these, put it all back together, and hey presto, we have lights, starter motor, horn etc.

the bad news is that it wont start, and Ive now got a flat battery.

first question - can I charge a bike battery with a car charger? I assume not, the charger runs at 6 amps, the battery says 0.9A. can I charge at 6A for 10 minutes?

What else? everything is still pretty damp - water dripping out of the accelerator handle, even though Ive had a cover on the bike for 2 months. I definitely have fuel, and the fuel switch is pointing upwards - where it usually points (no markings, so I assume that's ok). I can see fuel in the fuel filter.

when I start it, it just turned over for 10 minutes until battery flat.

Duncan

[rowlf]

Hi, glad you have found the problem in the switch.

Bear in mind that there may be more than one problem, so check that you have a spark. I find the easiest way is to take off the spark plug cap, poke in a posidrive screwdriver and hold the shaft of the screwdriver about 9mm from the engine block when turning over. If the engine is firing well the spark will jump. Dont touch the screwdriver metal parts

You should not charge too fast, it destroys the battery. Having said that, I have gotten away with 10 minutes on 10 minutes off until it charged (I don't know if that actually makes any difference, but it made me feel better However, I don't recommend it (do what I say, not what I do ) I recommend a £5 trickle charger from Ebay

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-12-VOLT-TRICKLE-BATTERY-CHARGER-CAR-VAN-MOTORHOME-CARAVAN-MOTORBIKE-QUAD-12V-/400345115936?pt=UK_Recovery_Tools&hash=item5d366dad20



You turn the pump to "prime", if left standing for a long time (the petrol can evaporate from the carb chambers) or after running out of petrol. Mind you, if you can see fuel in the filter, fuel supply should be OK. I suspect something electrical knowing some of the history !

I suggest you dry everything out with a hairdryer first. Some of your problem sounds like the bike was wet before you put the cover on. That is as bad as no cover, maybe worse, as it stops the wind from drying the bike out.

I strongly recommend you check for a spark first then, if no spark, check the "engine stop switch" contacts. If that area is especially wet "dripping" the contacts may well be corroded and duff now. The engine would turn but would not fire! Sound familiar ?

Incidentally, one of the units under the right hand side panel, the "relay assembly" controls it the bike "can" start. It checks if the bike is in neutral, the clutch lever position, if the sidestand is up or down, the oil level sensor and the stop switch. If any "condition" is wrong the bike wont start. If any of the contacts in those switches or sensors is corroded the bike wont start. However, before you get to that you need to check for a spark. That will tell you a lot about if the electrics are OK or not. If you get a spark the electrics are probably OK I suggest you try that first and come back.

Good luck

Rowlf

[duncandisorderly]

Rowlf - no spark from screwdriver to cylinder head! however, my stop switch doesn't work as you suggest. when its off, the starter doesn't turn the engine over, so the fact the engine is turning over suggests the switch is ok. I've also got a feeling that the same is true if the engine is in gear - so the fact its turning over suggests that the sensor is ok. what do you reckon?

BTW - thanks for all this help!

Duncan

[rowlf]

Oh, well I was basing my theory about the "engine on" switch based on past experience with a Honda (took me a while to figure out why it would turn over but not start ) The Yamaha obviously works differently. Unfortunately the "Ignitor unit" on my circuit diagram is just shown as a box, with no internal wiring, so very tough to figure out exactly which way it works. The relay assembly is a bit more obvious. Just!

At least we know the engine switch works and the starter relay is good. It also proves the main relay part of the "relay assembly" unit as that has to operate to feed the starter relay.

Before we go too much further, check both coils by testing two spark plugs. One coil supplies cylinders 1 & 4, one cylinders 2 & 3. If neither coil is working that is going to mean a fair bit of testing with your trusty multimeter .

I will need to look at the diagram and think about it (always a hard thing to do at my age ) The diagram is far from clear about the whole "relay assembly" and "ignitor unit" part of the circuit. I suggest you get your multimeter polished ! It will need to be in top condition Still, so far so good. You have tested a fair bit and fixed the faulty ignition switch. A good start.

Rowlf

[rowlf]

Have been thinking about this. Following the clues (my dear Watson) the water dripping from the accelerator handle was obviously a red herring (as was, in some ways, the ignition switch) but the fizzing sound needs investigating next, I am pretty sure that was something burning out, possible the diode (96 on versions).

The best approach now is to make a few tests, below, then get serious with the multimeter. If no spark from either coil it will mean checking the diode (need to know the year of manufacture) and the various connectors and sensors. Virtually all of this can be done by testing (poking around with meter) under the offending panel where all the electric relays etc are and where you heard the fizzing. However, before you do that make a few simple checks to narrow it down.

Unfortunately, as the corroded ignition switch shows, there is more than one fault which will means it may take a while. Also a bit tough as the circuit diagram does not tell everything. Some bits are mysterious boxes. However, I am fairly convinced a connector or wire has burnt out, which is easy enough to find and fix. Just a matter of tracking it down!

Here are some initial tests to eliminate a few things, also what year is it? The tests below will help to pinpoint the place to test next. Always a bit hard to test remotely but hang on in there. It may turn out to be a simple fix, like the ignition switch. By some simple electrical logic and simple testing of the power feed you got there!

Check both coils by seeing that both pairs of cylinders, 2 & 3 and 1 & 4, spark. BTW, the minimum distance the spark should jump across is 6mm but 9mm proves a healthy system.

Does the neutral light come on. Very important!

If a 96 on model, can you hear the fuel pump ticking? I don't have one on my 1995 model (vacuum pump) and I am not 100% sure if you even could hear it but if you can hear it working, it is a big clue.

Does the rev counter move when you turn the bike over? That will indicate the ignitor unit works.

Make sure there enough oil in the bike. The oil sensor stops things working, like the stop switch. Bit of a long shot but very easy to check. To test the oil sensor circuitry, switch the ignition on, if the oil light comes on you are low on oil (or, slightly possible) the sensor is faulty. If no light, put the bike in neutral, pull in the clutch and press the starter. The oil light should come on. A Yamaha circuit test!

Put the bike in 1st gear, make sure the sidestand is up, pull in the clutch lever and try to start it (look for a spark too). That will test both the clutch switch and the sidestand switch whilst bypassing the neutral switch.

Put your meter on the battery. Should be about 12.5 volts standing. See what this voltage drops to when you turn the bike over.

Rowlf