welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 5, 2007 16:05:56 GMT
When I start my bike from cold, clutch held in and put it into 1st, the bike very often jumps forward and stalls as if the clutch is not on. After doing this same thing 2 or 3 times it now cluncks into 1st and everything is fine from this point on. If the engine is hot and I turn of the bike and then restart the engine, hold the clutch in and put into 1st - no problem. Any ideas
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Post by Welsh Ade on Mar 5, 2007 16:26:37 GMT
Check your oil level as this could be part of the problem.
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Post by billywhizz on Mar 5, 2007 17:22:27 GMT
popular 'problem', best way of helping relieve the jump.. start up, whilst warming up, just 'pump' the clutch lever a couple of times, and if you can also blip the throttle whilst holding clutch lever in, then ..... engage gear as normal, and away you go.. probably won't stop the jolt, but should reduce it hth
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welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 5, 2007 17:46:16 GMT
Problem just got worse quite quickly. The bike has always gone into neutral no problem but now it is almost impossible. I can't get it into neutral with the engine running only when I turn it off and even then it is difficult. Only one thig I have done prior to this problem (ie yesterday), I couldn't see the oil level well through the window so may have put too much oil in as a top up. Could this have anything to do with it. I am wary about taking the bike to work tomorrow now because I may not be able to start it (it thinks its in gear even when the neutral is on for some time. I tried starting it earlier, the neutral light was on but when I pushed the start button the bike drove forwards. Help
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Post by CD on Mar 5, 2007 17:58:02 GMT
You said in another post there is emulsion in the oil sight glass. I'd suspect water contamination of the clutch plates. I would change the oil, then put the bike into neutral with engine off. Put bike on centre stand, wiggle rear wheel back & forth until you find neutral. The go for a long ride to dry out the engine.
If clutch problem persists you'll need to take the clutch cover off and make sure the mechanism is working and the plates are all ok. No need to waste the oil. Put the bike on side stand & chock the wheels. Then catch any lost oil in a clean tray. Sort out the clutch and re-use the oil that dripped out (its new after all).
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Post by Fiasco on Mar 5, 2007 22:15:21 GMT
Problem just got worse quite quickly. The bike has always gone into neutral no problem but now it is almost impossible. I can't get it into neutral with the engine running only when I turn it off and even then it is difficult. Only one thig I have done prior to this problem (ie yesterday), I couldn't see the oil level well through the window so may have put too much oil in as a top up. Could this have anything to do with it. I am wary about taking the bike to work tomorrow now because I may not be able to start it (it thinks its in gear even when the neutral is on for some time. I tried starting it earlier, the neutral light was on but when I pushed the start button the bike drove forwards. Help Hold on - have you checked the free play in your clutch cable ? If there is too much play the clutch won't engage properly. This is easily adjusted by undoing the lock nut and turning the knurled adjuster. Just a thought before you do anything drastic ! Dave ;D
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welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 6, 2007 8:26:01 GMT
I have got a good 3/4 inch free play on the clutch lever. Would that be enough to cause the problems. I'll adjust it tonight when I get in from work. I'm assuming that the knurled adjustment nut is on the clutch casing and not on the handlebar lever end. I'm going to change the oil and filter on the weekend and take the bike for a good long ride. The oil change wont do it any harm for sure. Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated. Cheers, Phil
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Post by General Gman on Mar 6, 2007 8:37:20 GMT
It's on the lever end....
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welshy
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Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 6, 2007 8:43:43 GMT
It was a 50/50 guess and I got it wrong. Lever end it is then... Cheers
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Post by billywhizz on Mar 6, 2007 9:57:40 GMT
3/4 inch free play on the lever is a lot. The Knurled nut/collar at the bars, takes the slack out, and you'd want about 1/4 inch play. It will make a difference,
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welshy
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Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 6, 2007 10:07:18 GMT
Thanks BW, you can't get advise like this anywhere else, least not from a Haynes manual. I love this site. I'll adjust it tonight and see what difference it makes. Thanks
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Post by Fiasco on Mar 6, 2007 13:25:07 GMT
Pretty sure I might be right - for once !!
Had a similar problem on my first 900 on the Devon run, think it was Markeith that put me right then.
Good Luck
Dave ;D
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welshy
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Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 6, 2007 14:41:45 GMT
Dave I went home at lunchtime and adjusted my clutch to take up all the free play (probably a bit too much - will do it again later). Anyway, I started the bike in neutral, held the clutch in and put into 1st. The bike jumped forward and stalled. I held the clutch in with the bike still in 1st and when I pressed the start button it just moved the bike forward as if in gear with no clutch. After 3 or 4 attempts it let me start it without powering forward. I drove it 5 miles into work and tried it with the engine hot and everything is perfect. I can select neutral and turn the engine on and off and the bike doesn't stall. I'm thinking it has to be the oil. If it was the clutch knackered, it wouldn't correct itself when the engine was hot (or would it ?)
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Post by billywhizz on Mar 6, 2007 14:51:08 GMT
welshy If over corrected, ie no slack, then problems 'could' persist, as when lever pulled in, may not totally disengage ! starting from cold, with it in gear, is not a recommended start , as per previously mentioned, (plates dry!) just also check that cable is free in the cable housing, and no tight bends / kinks. good luck Running and getting heat into the engine IS going to help, but feel it still needs a much longer run to really get hot and get water evaporated (five miles not relly a long run )
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welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 6, 2007 15:52:07 GMT
The sun has come out so I'm going to take it for a for a 30 mile round trip back home tonight when I leave work. It will be interesting to see if it's any better tomorrow morning. I'm still going to give it a birthday on Saturday. New oil, oil filter, clean the air filter, new plugs and a good run. Sounds like a nice day providing the b****y clutch works ok.
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Post by CD on Mar 6, 2007 16:25:13 GMT
3/4" free play at the lever would surely mean the clutch isnt being disengaged at all. But equally I'd expect a horribly floppy clutch lever and it should be obvious something is amiss.
If you haven't noticed a problem it could be the cable is worn and dragging, but I'd still expect the lever to not return itself in normal clutch fashion, or the clutch to slip as its being held open by the dragging cable.
When you pull the lever, does the lever on the engine cover move? The moving end should travel 1/2" to 3/4". If it does (and you are not sure how a healthy clutch should feel), disconnect the cable at both ends and make sure it moves freely. It should be possible to push it in and out without tools.
Reconnect the cable and adjust until the lever has about 1/8" or 3mm slack at clutch lever end. When the oil is new the clutch should work ok. If not it will need the cover opening to see what's going on inside.
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welshy
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Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 6, 2007 20:12:51 GMT
Good advice CD. I have adjusted the lever to allow about 3mm of free play. The actuating arm does move and return with clutch lever operation. However, I took the bike for a 25 mile run after work today which is the furthest I have been after topping up the oil a few days ago (I suspect over topping up of the oil as I couldn't see through the sight glass. I have had the bike parked up in the garage for about 3 hours and just checked to find an oily pool under it whilst parked on the side stand. I took a photo of it for any advice you could provide as to which tube it is that the oily stuff has come from and any reasons that it has done it. Thanks in advance,
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Post by swerve9031 on Mar 6, 2007 20:49:32 GMT
Welshy, This is the well documented breather problem, The pipe you can see in your picture comes from the Airbox, it's just a drain from that.
Depending on how much you may have overfilled it, I would just live with the small amounts of oil dropping, When it stops take the whole lot apart and clean all the pipes to the airbox.
There is apparently a fix to stop it happening, but there is no doubt in my mind by doing the 25 miles you have started to do the oil some good.
Peter
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welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 6, 2007 21:51:57 GMT
Thanks Peter, thats put my mind at rest. I've got an oil change lined up for the weekend so hopefully my problems will be solved then. Thanks again, Phil
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Post by Fiasco on Mar 6, 2007 23:22:54 GMT
DaveI went home at lunchtime and adjusted my clutch to take up all the free play (probably a bit too much - will do it again later). Anyway, I started the bike in neutral, held the clutch in and put into 1st. The bike jumped forward and stalled. I held the clutch in with the bike still in 1st and when I pressed the start button it just moved the bike forward as if in gear with no clutch. After 3 or 4 attempts it let me start it without powering forward. I drove it 5 miles into work and tried it with the engine hot and everything is perfect. I can select neutral and turn the engine on and off and the bike doesn't stall. I'm thinking it has to be the oil. If it was the clutch knackered, it wouldn't correct itself when the engine was hot (or would it ?) Sounds like you have sorted the neutral problem then. Back to the original problem then :-) My 900s used to jump forward when starting to a certain extent, but this was improved by warming the bike up for a bit first. To be honest I never saw it as a major problem, it might do it first start but will be fine by the time you get down the road. Dave ;D
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welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 7, 2007 9:06:04 GMT
Dave, I still have my neutral problem and all of the original problems. I can put it in neutral with the engine off but not with the engine on (at least most of the time). Rode my bike into work today (don't know if I will be able to ride home again) and I think my clutch might be operating/biting with the lever about 1 inch short of its full out position (furthest from handlebar). Think I might replace the clutch whilst I have the oil dropped on the weekend. I've got Reapers video and it looks straight forward (bet it isn't when I do it !). Seems like a good time to get rid of the clutch rattle at the same time if I could get hold of a locationg pin the right size before I do the job. Anyone got any ideas where I could get one from. I haven't got the skills or tools to machine one myself. Cheers, Phil
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Post by Welsh Ade on Mar 7, 2007 9:49:23 GMT
My experiance with Halfords Semi Synth Motorcycle Oil was not a good one.
Last October I change the oil and filter on my D6 first for me. Followed all the instructions in the Haynes manual.
Within the month I was having problems with getting the bike into gear and into neutral.
I changed the oil and filter after many discussions with local mechanics. Use Putolene semi synth and Yam OEM filter. Have had no clutch/gear problems since.
We can debate the pros and cons for ages but if something doesn't work for you but should then its carp especially when you put another oil in and it works without a problem.
I used to think oil is just oil all you need is the right viscosity and approvals. But now I have my doubts.
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welshy
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Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 7, 2007 11:18:16 GMT
Well after reading ade19650's post, I am going to just change my oil and filter and see if the problem is cured before looking at my clutch. If it works I owe you a good few beers.
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welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 7, 2007 13:27:57 GMT
Just bought myself 4lt of 10w40 Silkolene semi-synthetic (£22.99 on offer !)and a new filter (£8.93) from the local bike shop. Got the mechanic to take the bike for a spin to see the clutch problem but typically, the bike showed no signs of the problem and he said the clutch seems fine. Bet I can't get it into gear when i go home tonight!!!
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Post by mark600s on Mar 7, 2007 18:07:35 GMT
ive had the same problem with 600s couldnt ghange gear mostly going down the box.i was using halfords semi synthetic car oil i ghanged the oil and filter last monday for silkolene bike oil did 60 miles after oil ghange and have had no probs since in fact the bike runs better than ever so if i was you i would ghange oil and filter.
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Post by CD on Mar 7, 2007 19:22:05 GMT
Blip the throttle as you change down & it will change smoothly and be less strain on transmission and clutch. It works even with a sticky clutch.
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Post by elmerphudd on Mar 7, 2007 19:36:02 GMT
The problem is the basket bearing at the top of the gearbox this bearing sits just below the adjuster at the top of the gearbox and due to its position if the bike is left often on the sidestand the bearing is constantly sitting in the water that lies on top of the oil and hence rusts and dissintegrates causing your symptoms happened on my 600 divvy and had to be replaced at a cost of £80 supplyand fit
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Post by Welsh Ade on Mar 7, 2007 20:32:38 GMT
Mark 600 at least someone else that has had similar experiance.
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Post by mark600s on Mar 7, 2007 21:35:35 GMT
mine got so bad i was going to sell the bike but like i said ghanged oil and filter no more probs i wont use halfords oil again
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welshy
Boy Racer
Welsh Dragon
Posts: 232
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Post by welshy on Mar 10, 2007 21:57:19 GMT
Well I changed the oil this morning from Halfords semi synthetic motorcycle oil to Silkolene super 4 semi synthetic with a new filter and all my problems went away. My gear changes are now as smooth as silk. I have no problem puting it into neutral anymore. I wouldn't touch Halfords oil anymore with a barge pole. The Silkolene oil has made such a dramatic difference to my bike it's like a new bike. Thanks for all the advice, it was spot on.
Nice one guys
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