Post by bobh on Nov 7, 2011 21:52:32 GMT
A few pointers to driving in the eastern Pyrenees, and the journey back north:
1. On the whole, the roads are better (smoother and wider) on the Spanish side than on the French. But when they are bad they are absolutely horrid (i.e. unmade).
2. Unless you have a very good reason to visit Andorra, don’t bother. It’s basically a shopping mall with a ski resort attached to the top (or a ski resort with a shopping mall attached, depending on the time of year). Stuff is cheaper, and it’s worth filling up with petrol, but don’t be tempted to stock up on fags and booze as the French and Spanish customs (not just at the border post) are very hot, particularly on British cars (we obviously have a reputation for smuggling cigs – I can’t think why). Also, there are only a few main routes into and out of Andorra, so they get pretty busy. Finally, Andorran drivers are totally nuts and a lot of them drive quite fancy powerful motors, so beware (and not just in Andorra, either).
3. At the eastern end of the Pyrenees you have a few options for crossing over from Spain into France:
a. Via Andorra, and thence either the N20 via Foix, which will take you towards Toulouse (not very exciting apart from the very top bit), or via the Col de Puymorens towards Bourg Madame (see next item)
b. Via Puigcerda, crossing over into France at Bourg Madame and across the Cerdagne plateau (Pic 1) (choice of two routes – either is quite a nice drive though I think the N116 through Saillagouse just edges it over the D618 through Font Romeu) to Mont-Louis (Pic 2) (fortified town – worth a coffee stop). Then either the N116 towards Perpignan or the D118 which runs down the Aude valley all the way through Limoux (famous for its sparkling wine that predated Champagne) to Carcassonne (I don’t need to tell you what that’s famous for). The N116 is great on a bike (and cars in France will often help you past), but because it is busy it can be frustrating in a car, even one with good overtaking ability (and right-hand drive doesn’t help). There are hardly any passing places on the way down and few, if any, solid white lines, so it’s entirely down to your judgement! If you’re going down the N116, Villefranche-de-Conflent is an interesting fortified town, though it does get busy (and now you have to pay to park!) The D118 is twistier and not so well surfaced, but is quieter except in peak holiday periods and weekends. So the choice would probably come down to which direction you wanted to head in when you get to the bottom.
c. Via the Col d’Ares (Pic 3) from Camprodon to Prats-de-Mollo. The pass itself is great, and in my experience not usually very busy. The downside is that once you hit the valley floor at P-de-M the D115 isn’t very interesting and further down you have a series of towns which slow you right down.
d. Via Coustouges (Pic 4) on a secondary road off the N11 near Capmany, between Figueres (Dali museum) and La Jonquera. This is one of my favourites on the bike. It’s not too easy to find – I think it’s signed to Darnius and St Laurent-de-Cerdans – and quickly disappears under the new TGV line and the autopista, both of which run parallel with the N-road here. The first stretch, almost to the French border, is great – smooth tarmac, nicely radiused bends – you often see guys on sports bikes giving it a bit up here. You also usually see a couple of Guardia Civils a few Km before the frontier - although they are looking more for illegal immigrants and smugglers than speeders, they might take an interest in a high-speed convoy of 7’s! Then a couple of Km before the border it gets bumpy and narrow, and it carries on like that over the top and down to meet the D115 (see previous item) near Arles-sur-Tech, which is a bit of a downer. On the trail bike I can avoid that by taking to the hills on the opposite side, but in a car you’re stuck.
e. The N11 (Spain) – N9 (France) from La Jonquera via Le Perthus to Le Boulou – don’t, just don’t (unless you’re desperately in need of a brothel). There is an interesting musem of the Retirada (exodus of Spanish Republicans at the end of the Civil War) at La Jonquera, but otherwise it’s just a big cheap shopping centre and filling station full of HGVs.
f. The A7 (Spain) – A9 (France) – it’s a toll motorway, need I say more?
g. The coast road from Llanca via the interestingly-named Colera to Banyuls-sur-Mer, Port Vendres (Pic 5) and Collioure (Pic 6 & 7) (a pretty artists’ paradise, busy at any time but packed in the summer). Pretty, lots of superb sea views (Pic 8 is my D9 on the border on this road) but very, very, twisty and always busy in season – takes twice as long as you think it will from the map. Nice quiet beach at Garbet between Llanca and Colera – there used to be a good restaurant on the beach here but it seems to have closed. There’s a petrol station improbably perched on the hillside just before the French border, to take advantage of Spanish fuel being cheaper than French. The former Nobel dynamite factory between Banyuls and Port Vendres is quite evocative and worth a visit if you have an hour to spare.
4. Once you’re in France, there are plenty of nice open roads that are just as enjoyable in a car as on a bike, though I have to say that some of the twistier passes in the Pyrenees-Orientales (66) and Ariege (09) Departements, such as the Col de Jau (D14) are better on two wheels (Pic 9 - though maybe not on that occasion!). My daughter for a while had a little village house at Mosset (one of the many “prettiest villages in France”), which she used to let out occasionally, Mosset is on the southern side of the Col de Jau, and visitors would regularly turn up several hours later than intended, having looked at the map and decided that the Col would be the most direct route. Anyway. one of my favourite routes, which I use as an alternative to the motorway or the main coast road up to Narbonne, starts at Millas on the N116. It follows the D612 over the Col de la Bataille to Estagel, then left for a Km on the D117, right onto the D611 over the level crossing, a left turn after a couple of Km (still on the D611) through Paziols and Tuchan and over the Corbieres through Villeneuve, Durban and skirting Portel to hit the N9 near Sigean just south of Narbonne.
5. From there, if I was carrying on northwards, I could take the Narbonne ring road and turn off on the D607/D907 towards Minerve (which you skirt), St Pons de Thomieres, La Salvetat-sur-Agout, Lacaune, St Sernin, then D33 to Requista and on to Rodez. From there you have a choice of fun roads across the Massif Centrale.This looks pretty twisty on the map, but I’ve done it on the bike and, apart from the odd lorry trusting its satnav more than its brains, it’s been pretty empty.
6. Alternatively you might choose to go a bit further east, e.g. via St Affrique, to have a look at the Millau Bridge. And if you wanted to pick up the A75 autoroute to go north as quickly as possible, take the D908 from St Pons up to Bedarieux, then the D35 to le Bousquet and Lunas, then the D142 past the Buddhist monastery (really) to Rives and pick up the A75 at Le Caylar, by the service area. It looks pretty twiddly on the map, but I’ve done it with a car full of luggage and it’s great.
7. If you’re going north on the A75 (which, incidentally, is toll-free apart from the Millau Bridge) I’d advise coming off at J47 (signed “Millau par RN”) and follow the old road. There is an excellent view point on the right as you start to drop down into Millau (Pic 10), which, together with the view from under the bridge itself from the St Affrique road, are the best ways of seeing it, in my opinion. The bonuses are that the road down into the town is superb, if you can get a clear run (unlikely at holiday times, I’m afraid) and you can get cheaper petrol at Super-U near the roundabout at the bottom. Also to regain the autoroute, don’t take the signposted route out of town but instead go to Aguessac, then take a right just after leaving the town (I think it’s signed Cabrieres and/or Vezouillac) – this is the old road, and is in good condition because it takes very little traffic now (the odd lorry does still use it, for whatever reason), and has two of the best hairpins you are likely to find anywhere. You finally rejoin the autoroute at J44 - obviously if you are coming from the north this is where you should exit. A word of caution – I did once come across a party of gendarmes on the long straight near the bottom – fortunately someone coming the other way had flashed to warn me.
8. That’s probably enough for now, except to say that the police in France are really hotting up the speeding patrols. On my last visit to France a month ago I saw no less than six on the journey down, whereas in the past I’d have been surprised to see more than one. It used to be that they’d always be in the middle of a village, near the café, but now it seems the most likely places to find them are:
a. On short stretches of three-lane or dual carriageway after a long section of single-track, i.e. where all the bottled up fast folks are going to be busting a gut to pass the idiots that have been holding them up for the last half-hour.
b. On straight sections of busy single-lane through routes used by HGVs. The lorries will be doing 90 Km/hr downhill but slowing on the uphill sections, so to get past you have to go well over the 90 limit. The radar will be well hidden, but the gendarmes will be at the next roundabout to pull you over.
c. On autoroutes, possibly concealed in a “broken-down” estate car partly-hidden up a slip road or emergency pull-in. They may be waiting for you somewhere up the road.
d. On the outskirts of towns and villages, particularly looking for people “jumping the gun” as they exit the 50 limit.
e. The manned camera often look like a theodolite (the sort of instrument surveyors use on a tripod). The gendarmes don’t usually wear hi-vis.
f. Fixed cameras at present have a nice big warning sign, and a reminder of the speed limit, somewhere beforehand, though the cameras themselves can be harder to spot. There is talk of the signs being taken down, though.
Have a good trip!
1. The Cerdagne, looking west (i.e. towards Andorra):
2. Mont-Louis:
3. Col d'Ares - looking towards Spain:
4. Coustouges, from the Spanish side - nice stretch of road jusr visible:
5. Port Vendres:
6 & 7. Collioure:
8. Border on Coast Road:
9. Col de Jau - I was trying to get back to base over the Col - the "up" side was cleared but the "down" side wasn't and the temperature was rapidly dropping below freezing. So - back the way I'd come!
10. Millau Viaduct from the viewpoint on the "old" into Millau from the south:
1. On the whole, the roads are better (smoother and wider) on the Spanish side than on the French. But when they are bad they are absolutely horrid (i.e. unmade).
2. Unless you have a very good reason to visit Andorra, don’t bother. It’s basically a shopping mall with a ski resort attached to the top (or a ski resort with a shopping mall attached, depending on the time of year). Stuff is cheaper, and it’s worth filling up with petrol, but don’t be tempted to stock up on fags and booze as the French and Spanish customs (not just at the border post) are very hot, particularly on British cars (we obviously have a reputation for smuggling cigs – I can’t think why). Also, there are only a few main routes into and out of Andorra, so they get pretty busy. Finally, Andorran drivers are totally nuts and a lot of them drive quite fancy powerful motors, so beware (and not just in Andorra, either).
3. At the eastern end of the Pyrenees you have a few options for crossing over from Spain into France:
a. Via Andorra, and thence either the N20 via Foix, which will take you towards Toulouse (not very exciting apart from the very top bit), or via the Col de Puymorens towards Bourg Madame (see next item)
b. Via Puigcerda, crossing over into France at Bourg Madame and across the Cerdagne plateau (Pic 1) (choice of two routes – either is quite a nice drive though I think the N116 through Saillagouse just edges it over the D618 through Font Romeu) to Mont-Louis (Pic 2) (fortified town – worth a coffee stop). Then either the N116 towards Perpignan or the D118 which runs down the Aude valley all the way through Limoux (famous for its sparkling wine that predated Champagne) to Carcassonne (I don’t need to tell you what that’s famous for). The N116 is great on a bike (and cars in France will often help you past), but because it is busy it can be frustrating in a car, even one with good overtaking ability (and right-hand drive doesn’t help). There are hardly any passing places on the way down and few, if any, solid white lines, so it’s entirely down to your judgement! If you’re going down the N116, Villefranche-de-Conflent is an interesting fortified town, though it does get busy (and now you have to pay to park!) The D118 is twistier and not so well surfaced, but is quieter except in peak holiday periods and weekends. So the choice would probably come down to which direction you wanted to head in when you get to the bottom.
c. Via the Col d’Ares (Pic 3) from Camprodon to Prats-de-Mollo. The pass itself is great, and in my experience not usually very busy. The downside is that once you hit the valley floor at P-de-M the D115 isn’t very interesting and further down you have a series of towns which slow you right down.
d. Via Coustouges (Pic 4) on a secondary road off the N11 near Capmany, between Figueres (Dali museum) and La Jonquera. This is one of my favourites on the bike. It’s not too easy to find – I think it’s signed to Darnius and St Laurent-de-Cerdans – and quickly disappears under the new TGV line and the autopista, both of which run parallel with the N-road here. The first stretch, almost to the French border, is great – smooth tarmac, nicely radiused bends – you often see guys on sports bikes giving it a bit up here. You also usually see a couple of Guardia Civils a few Km before the frontier - although they are looking more for illegal immigrants and smugglers than speeders, they might take an interest in a high-speed convoy of 7’s! Then a couple of Km before the border it gets bumpy and narrow, and it carries on like that over the top and down to meet the D115 (see previous item) near Arles-sur-Tech, which is a bit of a downer. On the trail bike I can avoid that by taking to the hills on the opposite side, but in a car you’re stuck.
e. The N11 (Spain) – N9 (France) from La Jonquera via Le Perthus to Le Boulou – don’t, just don’t (unless you’re desperately in need of a brothel). There is an interesting musem of the Retirada (exodus of Spanish Republicans at the end of the Civil War) at La Jonquera, but otherwise it’s just a big cheap shopping centre and filling station full of HGVs.
f. The A7 (Spain) – A9 (France) – it’s a toll motorway, need I say more?
g. The coast road from Llanca via the interestingly-named Colera to Banyuls-sur-Mer, Port Vendres (Pic 5) and Collioure (Pic 6 & 7) (a pretty artists’ paradise, busy at any time but packed in the summer). Pretty, lots of superb sea views (Pic 8 is my D9 on the border on this road) but very, very, twisty and always busy in season – takes twice as long as you think it will from the map. Nice quiet beach at Garbet between Llanca and Colera – there used to be a good restaurant on the beach here but it seems to have closed. There’s a petrol station improbably perched on the hillside just before the French border, to take advantage of Spanish fuel being cheaper than French. The former Nobel dynamite factory between Banyuls and Port Vendres is quite evocative and worth a visit if you have an hour to spare.
4. Once you’re in France, there are plenty of nice open roads that are just as enjoyable in a car as on a bike, though I have to say that some of the twistier passes in the Pyrenees-Orientales (66) and Ariege (09) Departements, such as the Col de Jau (D14) are better on two wheels (Pic 9 - though maybe not on that occasion!). My daughter for a while had a little village house at Mosset (one of the many “prettiest villages in France”), which she used to let out occasionally, Mosset is on the southern side of the Col de Jau, and visitors would regularly turn up several hours later than intended, having looked at the map and decided that the Col would be the most direct route. Anyway. one of my favourite routes, which I use as an alternative to the motorway or the main coast road up to Narbonne, starts at Millas on the N116. It follows the D612 over the Col de la Bataille to Estagel, then left for a Km on the D117, right onto the D611 over the level crossing, a left turn after a couple of Km (still on the D611) through Paziols and Tuchan and over the Corbieres through Villeneuve, Durban and skirting Portel to hit the N9 near Sigean just south of Narbonne.
5. From there, if I was carrying on northwards, I could take the Narbonne ring road and turn off on the D607/D907 towards Minerve (which you skirt), St Pons de Thomieres, La Salvetat-sur-Agout, Lacaune, St Sernin, then D33 to Requista and on to Rodez. From there you have a choice of fun roads across the Massif Centrale.This looks pretty twisty on the map, but I’ve done it on the bike and, apart from the odd lorry trusting its satnav more than its brains, it’s been pretty empty.
6. Alternatively you might choose to go a bit further east, e.g. via St Affrique, to have a look at the Millau Bridge. And if you wanted to pick up the A75 autoroute to go north as quickly as possible, take the D908 from St Pons up to Bedarieux, then the D35 to le Bousquet and Lunas, then the D142 past the Buddhist monastery (really) to Rives and pick up the A75 at Le Caylar, by the service area. It looks pretty twiddly on the map, but I’ve done it with a car full of luggage and it’s great.
7. If you’re going north on the A75 (which, incidentally, is toll-free apart from the Millau Bridge) I’d advise coming off at J47 (signed “Millau par RN”) and follow the old road. There is an excellent view point on the right as you start to drop down into Millau (Pic 10), which, together with the view from under the bridge itself from the St Affrique road, are the best ways of seeing it, in my opinion. The bonuses are that the road down into the town is superb, if you can get a clear run (unlikely at holiday times, I’m afraid) and you can get cheaper petrol at Super-U near the roundabout at the bottom. Also to regain the autoroute, don’t take the signposted route out of town but instead go to Aguessac, then take a right just after leaving the town (I think it’s signed Cabrieres and/or Vezouillac) – this is the old road, and is in good condition because it takes very little traffic now (the odd lorry does still use it, for whatever reason), and has two of the best hairpins you are likely to find anywhere. You finally rejoin the autoroute at J44 - obviously if you are coming from the north this is where you should exit. A word of caution – I did once come across a party of gendarmes on the long straight near the bottom – fortunately someone coming the other way had flashed to warn me.
8. That’s probably enough for now, except to say that the police in France are really hotting up the speeding patrols. On my last visit to France a month ago I saw no less than six on the journey down, whereas in the past I’d have been surprised to see more than one. It used to be that they’d always be in the middle of a village, near the café, but now it seems the most likely places to find them are:
a. On short stretches of three-lane or dual carriageway after a long section of single-track, i.e. where all the bottled up fast folks are going to be busting a gut to pass the idiots that have been holding them up for the last half-hour.
b. On straight sections of busy single-lane through routes used by HGVs. The lorries will be doing 90 Km/hr downhill but slowing on the uphill sections, so to get past you have to go well over the 90 limit. The radar will be well hidden, but the gendarmes will be at the next roundabout to pull you over.
c. On autoroutes, possibly concealed in a “broken-down” estate car partly-hidden up a slip road or emergency pull-in. They may be waiting for you somewhere up the road.
d. On the outskirts of towns and villages, particularly looking for people “jumping the gun” as they exit the 50 limit.
e. The manned camera often look like a theodolite (the sort of instrument surveyors use on a tripod). The gendarmes don’t usually wear hi-vis.
f. Fixed cameras at present have a nice big warning sign, and a reminder of the speed limit, somewhere beforehand, though the cameras themselves can be harder to spot. There is talk of the signs being taken down, though.
Have a good trip!
1. The Cerdagne, looking west (i.e. towards Andorra):
2. Mont-Louis:
3. Col d'Ares - looking towards Spain:
4. Coustouges, from the Spanish side - nice stretch of road jusr visible:
5. Port Vendres:
6 & 7. Collioure:
8. Border on Coast Road:
9. Col de Jau - I was trying to get back to base over the Col - the "up" side was cleared but the "down" side wasn't and the temperature was rapidly dropping below freezing. So - back the way I'd come!
10. Millau Viaduct from the viewpoint on the "old" into Millau from the south:
