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Post by irishkev on Aug 19, 2009 12:32:18 GMT
Hi All I have been using my newly aquired XJ 900S on a daily run to and from work. On one occassion I had to brake hard but it was scarey. So I am looking to see if it is possible to improve the stopping, I have seen discussion about the Fazer 600 and 1000 brakes and I was wondering which of these would be best, do you have to get the master cyclinder Splitter, Hoses or can you just put the calipers on. Do you need to use the hoses Anyone with any experience of this, I would be interested to hear you views if there is any improvement at all. Thanks  |
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Post by Padster on Aug 19, 2009 12:38:26 GMT
It would be worth making sure the system is working properly. If it has original hoses on then changing to stainless steel brake lines would help. Giving the calipers a complete service and using HH pads will give you plenty of stopping power.
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Post by CD on Aug 19, 2009 13:41:58 GMT
I found the original brakes were well up there in raw power, but they were hard to control so I found the bike pogoed about on its soft forks. Smooth braking to keep a pillion happy was a struggle.
I ended up with Yamaha blue spot calipers and master cylinder from an R6. The latter isnt as neat as a Fazer unit but they came as a set. I also fitted HH pads and braided hoses.
Costs -
Hoses about £60. I used the ones where you fit your own end fittings but those made-up to the right length with a swivel fitting on one end are a better bet.
Brakes
I paid £60 from an ebay breaker
Pads
I needed new pads anyway so saved the cost of scrapping a set of servicable pads.
Faff factor -
Calipers - zero they drop straight on
Master cyl - I had to open out the bolt holes on the original divvie mirror clamp to fit the R6 unit and make a bracket for the remote fluid reservoir.
Hoses - As said, get them made to a specified length with a swivel at one end.
The brakes have lots of power but possibly not *that* much more than the originals. More importantly, I need lots less muscle force so they are far more controllable. Two fingers are usually enough.
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Post by irishkev on Aug 20, 2009 12:14:36 GMT
Thanks Guys for getting back, I will have a good look at the calipres and probably change the hoses to braided hoses and see if there is any improvement. If this doesn't improve I will get the Fazer calipres and mastercyclinder and hopefully this will improve the braking.
Thanks
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Post by CD on Aug 20, 2009 13:55:38 GMT
Watch out with the braided hoses. If I'd gone for new Divvie hoses they would not have fitted the blue spots - not quite long enough to reach the Blue Spot banjos. I could easily have ended up with a set of (nearly) new braided hoses I couldnt use.
Braided hoses dont make the brakes better they just improve the brake feel - being less stretchy.
If the overhauled Divvie brakes dont suit you, its perhaps best to go straight into the blue spots routine. Ditto if the bike needs new brake pads as Divvie pads wont fit the blue spots.
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Post by Pool Boy on Aug 24, 2009 21:20:42 GMT
It CAN be worth changing all the brake fuid (you'll probably do that anyway if changing the hoses or calipers)
Old brake fluid absorbs water which can boil when the brakes are used hard and the resulting vapour is more compressable than the fluid so the brakes get spongy
Roger
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Post by CD on Aug 25, 2009 8:22:30 GMT
Deffo worth doing just keep topping up the reservoir and pumping through until its running clean. Most of the moisture gets in through the caliper seals so regular fluid changes might also let them last longer.
I posted a "howto" on the blue spot seals overhaul. Well worth doing if fitting used calipers. The only snag is that nicely sliding pistons move about lots more so the calipers are harder to bleed.
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Post by irishkev on Dec 5, 2009 21:43:28 GMT
Hi CD I am putting the Blue Spot Frazer brake calipers on my D900 and I am looking to order new brake hoses as well. I noted in your comments you say not to order D900 type because they dont fit. Could you tell what your ordered and the lengths. I can see that there is one hose going from the master cyclinder, and then the metal brake line which splits and goes to two smaller rubber hoses. Is there a kit I can order that might be the proper length. Kevin  |
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Post by CD on Dec 6, 2009 20:00:24 GMT
Hi Kev, I used two hoses. One going down each side direct from the master cylinder down to the calipers. This end need a longer banjo bolt with two cross holes at the top. In my case the R6 unit was already fitted with this. The Divvie brake pipes are all removed. Use only a 6 point 8mm socket on those little bolts. Anything else will round off the corners! Ask me how I know.  I would get some none stretch washing line and rune a length from the caliper banjo bolt hole centre up the fork leg to the master cyl banjo centre. You could tape it on with PVC tape. On the right it just goes straight down. On the left its best to go under the top yoke and then down as this keeps the hose behind the fork leg. Going under the bottom yoke makes the hose stick out sideways and looks a bit odd. Now take off the templates and measure the lengths. If you get hoses with a swivel on one end there is no worry about them getting twisted. When fitting the hoses to prevent them chafing, I used some car fuel hose split along the length as buffers under the zip ties. I found the R6 brakes hard to bleed. and ended up tie-ing the lever back over night. Thankfully this sorted it. Dont forget to pump the lever before riding off to press the pads home. Last point. You will need to tell the manufacturer that the top ends are to go under one banjo bolt. They can both be flat ended fittings but it will be neater if one is cranked about 15 degs so the two ends can sit over each other. Its not a "must have" but I think its neater that way. |
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Post by irishkev on Dec 6, 2009 20:55:55 GMT
Hi CD Thanks for getting back, I will measure the hose lines as you said and I will need to order a double hole banjo also. I suppose the hose ends should be a swivel type which will help in fitting. Thanks again I will let you know how I get on. |
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Post by CD on Dec 7, 2009 10:56:25 GMT
No worries. The issue is that braided hoses shouldn't be twisted and the ends wont line up parallel. Another thought - Yamaha banjo threads are a bit strange. Make sure you take the original banjo bolts to compare the threads.
If you expect to be fitting bar risers its worth adding another inch or two though you wont need a huge amount of extra hose length. Check it out with the washing line patterns.
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Post by vaughan on Dec 10, 2009 18:51:51 GMT
Hi CD and Kevin, I have been following this thread with great interest. I am in Port Elizabeth, South Africa and ride a 2001 divvy 900. My braking has been deterioating over the last few months to where it was very scary. Asking the local yam dealer (there is only one in our little town) to fit new pads did not solve the problem but we did discover that the pistons were very sticky and almost impossible to push back in order to fit the new pads. It also appear as though the one disc is out of true.
A quote from the dealer for new calipers ex Japan was ZAR 2 300 each which is very expensive. Sourcing 2nd hand parts in SA is difficult as the Divvy was not sold here in great numbers.
Having followed your thread I'm off to price Fazer and R6 calipers as lots were sold here and second hand parts should be easily available. The new parts might even be cheaper than the Divvy new parts as they are later??
Probably a dumb question but what is a blue spot caliper?
If using Fazer calipers which one is best, the 600 or 1000?
Thanks very much for the info.
Vaughan
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Post by teejayexc on Dec 10, 2009 19:58:31 GMT
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Post by bobh on Dec 10, 2009 20:27:30 GMT
I think the front calipers for the FZS600 and 1000 Fazers (and R6s, Thundercats, TDM900s etc.) were all the same. Although the FZ6 Fazers (with the injected R6 engine) which replaced the FZS600 Fazer (with the carburetted Thundercat engine) were different, if that's not too confusing.
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Post by General Gman on Dec 11, 2009 17:27:58 GMT
Aye, and non-radial R1 calipers are also the same.If you find gold-spots for a decent price get them - they have a better anti-friction coating on the pistons.
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Post by HRHpenfold on Dec 11, 2009 18:12:01 GMT
I think the front calipers for the FZS600 and 1000 Fazers (and R6s, Thundercats, TDM900s etc.) were all the same. Although the FZ6 Fazers (with the injected R6 engine) which replaced the FZS600 Fazer (with the carburetted Thundercat engine) were different, if that's not too confusing. no, the Tcat and Tace calipers have a link pipe between caliper sides, the later blue spots have this link internally  |
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Post by HRHpenfold on Dec 11, 2009 19:25:05 GMT
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Post by CD on Dec 13, 2009 15:23:06 GMT
As already said, I have R6 calipers and master cylinder. They are more than powerful enough for the Divvie 900 forks. There's no doubt they work because without trying my bike uses all of the fork travel. I will eventually get around to fitting some Hagon progressive springs. This is the CD Mk1 reservoir mount. Mk2 is neater putting the pot in front of the throttle grip housing with a 15mm long spacer tube and a long clamp bolt.   Those super brakes will be wonderful, but there's no point without suspension to suit. Some Hossacks would sort it though. |
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Post by irishkev on Feb 3, 2010 22:27:13 GMT
Hi Cd
I finally sourced the blue spots, and a master cylinder of a Fazer.
Got new hoses and calculated the length for the blue spot calipers. I used two hoses coming from the master cylinder with the longer banjo bolt for the master cylinder. Took my time, so over a couple of days sorted it all out and went for a test run. The brakes are considerable quicker to engage and to good effective, big difference between the old and new brakes. Thanks to all for the advice and now on to the next improvement.
Keep up the good work
Kevin
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Post by CD on Feb 7, 2010 16:04:34 GMT
A top job well done. Some progressive fork spring will help to reduce the fork dive. Thicker fork oil does very little to reduce the dive - I believe there is not very much compression damping. I'm told by a suspension specialist that improving the forks' internal valving should make a big difference and he says about £100 would do it. I haven't taken him up on the idea |
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