Engine - Oil Level Check - Tips?

[welshy]

I checked my oil level yesterday and it was almost impossible to see whrough the sight glass properly due to that white stuff that gets created in the oil. The oil in the bike has only been in for around 1000 miles so i don't want to change it yet. I just want to be able to see the level that is in there. I tried poking a wire coat hanger into the filler hole to use asa sort of dip stick but it didn't really work. Is there a way to stick something in the filler hole that would act like a dipstick. Alternatively. is there a way of cleaning up the inside of the level window so that I can see whats in there (an additive or flexible window cleaning implement).

Cheers,
Phil

[biodon]

Hi Phil
I used to get this as I used the bike for short runs in the winter.I found the best way was to give it a good thrashing 15-20 miles on the motorway to melt the condensation then change the oil and filter.Then the bike would be good all summer.Plus clean out the breather tubes at the same time.Don

[welshy]

Good advice but my problem is that I know the oil and filter are OK at the moment and do not need changing. I just need to find some way of checking the level given that the sight glass is all but useless at the moment. Any ideas.
Thanks

[swerve9031]

Just take it for a decent run Welshy, That should sort it out.

Used to happen on my 600 when I was only doing a few miles each way to work. in the winter.

I just wonder if anyone has ever tried blanking off all or part of the oil cooler under these circumstances and see if that stops it.


Peter

[welshy]

Sounds like a perfect reason to go and visit a few old mates in South Wales. I'll explain to my missus that I have to go to Wales for the weekend on my bike so that i can check my oil level. She's blonde so I',m sure it wont be a problem. (Appologies to any blonde gals in here - only joking - honest)

[HRHpenfold]

simple, if the level is low, the oil level light comes on

[billywhizz]

the white stuff is the water /oil emulsifing....
need to get the engine hot for long enough for the water in the oil to evaporate.
hence the advice for a long run and and a bit of a blast. and yes keep them breather pipes clear..
covering oil cooler WILL NOT help with this...
the oil light will come on if level gets low, however, I always liked to keep the level nearer to the top of the site glass.
if its frothy and full though, you should have enough oil in there,..
hth

[CD]

Personally, I would change the oil, clean the vent pipes, then go to see your friends to dry out the water that's still hanging around in the engine.
All that emulsion will have damaged the special additives that are put into engine oils to protect the engine and keep fine wear patricles in suspension. You can go for a blast to clear the emulsion, but what if its affecting the oil level switch (Divvies dont have oil pressure switch) you could be running low. So, while its only done 1000miles the contamination could mean the oil is effectvely worn out and there is no way to tell.
What price a few litres of oil or a worn engine?

[welshy]

Thanks for the advice. I am going to change the oil tonight hopefully if the kids and the missus give me a break. Hopefully all that white gunk will come out when I drop the old oil.

[alpaholic]

Errr. It would be better to ride it till the gunk evaporates and *then* change the oil. Otherwise you'll be pouring good oil onto the condenastion/emulsified oil, which is exactly what you're trying to avoid.

IMHO However if your riding habits cause emulsifed oil then you need to change oil more regularly rather than every time you see mayo. It's been in only 1000 miles, I'd change at 2k miles. Changing every 1k miles is good, but overkill IMHO.

So to recap. Short journeys are reducing the useful life of your oil. However, 1k miles is overkill.

[welshy]

Good advice, thanks. I've now got a good reason to give the wife for going for a good old spin on the machine this evening. The weather looks perfect out.

[CD]

What was that about giving the wife a run with the machine on spin.

Oh yes - my mistake - got the word order muddled.

[rabbitstu]

I'm glad I found this thread as I've recently had the same problem. Cold morning start followed by a shortish (15min) ride coloured up the oil optic! A longer ride the next day saw things back to normal (but then again it was also warmer), but the problem keeps occuring on very cold days (even when taking longer routes).
The problem appears to be that warm air from the engine moving up the breather pipe to the air box encounters fast moving cold air, hence the condensation occuring at the top of the breather pipe and having no where else to go but down into the crankcase (not a brill design eh!). I'm going to try and order a small filter for the breather (I believe Bandit Mania do some)and try and possition it so that any possible condensation dosn't travel back into the crankcase. I'll try to post up the results at a later date.
I've just taken off the crankcase breather and there was a fair amount of water in the tube!

[rabbitstu]

Don't know if any of you are reading this or are interested/care but I'll carry on with the next part of my nerdy condensation saga (perhaps I could do a PHd on this!).

Fitted a seperate filter onto breather pipe but condensation still built up in pipe. Conclusion: Cold temperature of long rubber breather pipe causes condensation inside pipe. Going for a long blast warms pipe up enough for excess moisture to vent.
OK, so possible solutions are 1) insulate pipe (perhaps a larger pipe sealed over the original?)
2) shorten breather pipe so it warms up quicker.
I'm going to try the shortening trick first. In fact I'm going to place the vent filter directly on the vent pipe off the crank case (ripspeed vent filter available from Halfords, about £9).

Will rabbitstu find crank case breather eutopia? Tune in soon for the next exciting instalment.

[rabbitstu]

Results so far:
The vent filter has definately improved matters, although short runs on a very cold day have still produced some misting on the oil optic. A side effect of this mod is that the engine definately feels more responsive!
Will try insulating breather pipe next as the vent filter is presently exposed to the elements and I don't know how well it would survive in wet weather.
Any feedback from you guys would be welcome as I'm beginning to feel a bit of a sad bastard!

[suzukikidontheloose53]

Don't know if any of you are reading this or are interested/care but I'll carry on with the next part of my nerdy condensation saga (perhaps I could do a PHd on this!).



I'm reading it,but I'm an insomniac ;D

[General Gman]

Very interesting......
I always found just caning the tits off the bike stopped any of the ole manky oil syndrome.

[rabbitstu]

Thanks for listening guys. Worth trying the vent filter as it is making the engine more responsive ;D ( apparently they do the same thing to bandit engines for more responsive throttle action!).
Canning the t*ts off is fine, but the roads are getting so chocked up with cameras & cars it's getting difficult finding a decent streatch to blow away the cobwebs on my work run

Cheers, rabbitstu.

[welshy]

Did insulating the pipe make any difference as well as using the vent filter. I'm waiting for the next installment with baited breath.

[HRHpenfold]

It's a well known fact, that adventurers don't ever have this problem

[eliminator]

Condensation forms inside the crankase and is vented into this pipe. Putting a vent filter on the end of the breather pipe or insulation won't IMO change anything. Maybe there's less condensation because there's less pipe?

Can't see it being a performane enhancer either, probably sounds a little noisier that's all?

[taint]

I can see the insulation making a difference; as it prevents the air from cooling too quickly; which stops the moisture from condensing on the inside of the pipe and dripping back into the crankcase. The mayo is formed where this moisture and the oil spray mixes; which is why it's the breather pipe which gets blocked.

The vent filter would have a similar effect; as the air escapes faster and doesn't get the chance to condense. The only reason I can see there being a performance increase would be a less restricted airflow; similar to adding a main K&N air filter.

The problem is how to reduce the oil absorbing atmospheric moisture; which an insulated pipe or filter will not resolve. The only real solution is getting the engine nice and hot; which dissipates the moisture present and prevents it returning until the engine is again cooling.

Aside from that I can only suggest looking for an oil additive or an oil which inhibits the emulsifying effect of the oil/water mix. Perhaps try some of the newer fully synthetic oils?

I hope this helps

T.