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Post by teejayexc on Mar 15, 2015 7:59:16 GMT
....why the screw heads on jap bikes appear to be made of cheese? Cursed the times you try and get them out with your favourite Philips sooper dooper screwdriver only to witness it not biting and slipping out, having ultimately to resort to the impact driver? Well....seems you need a proper tool, (no not the one living in Wantage), but a JIS standard screwdriver..... www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/jis-screwdrivers/ |
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Post by bev on Mar 15, 2015 10:30:03 GMT
That's because Philips screwdrivers are not cross head screwdrivers, When you look on the end of a proper crosshead you can see the cross. I'll show you next time I see you, I use proper cross heads at work. (and on the bike  ) Looks like there's too many bodgers on this forum.  |
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Post by n4naked on Mar 15, 2015 12:37:40 GMT
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Post by HRHpenfold on Mar 15, 2015 13:37:58 GMT
Yes they are JIS or Japanese industry standard,
Difficult to find though!
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Post by m40man on Mar 15, 2015 15:08:48 GMT
Difficult to find though! Really? Just look in your bike's tool kit - even KE100's have 'em  . |
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Post by GAv on Mar 15, 2015 15:28:48 GMT
I am really confused, easily done I know,but when I took the panelling off my Aprilia Futura to bleed the hydraulic clutch, it was the same mismatch of screws, Philips Allen keyed ones and of various sizes as was the case on my old Atlantic Maxi Scooter which the Italians seem to love to fit.
Chinese bikes are like what Japs were like in the early days ,albeit they just carbon copy and do not innovate. I must be a bodger after all these years,because surely most oriental bike screws are predominantly Philips? When I took the side panel off my Divvy to get at the awkwardly mounted rear brake reservoir it was definitely Philips head screws. Oh and just to confuse matters further I had a Honda 125 Sonic Nova RS, which was in effect an underbone version of a CBR 125 but with a 5 speed box,made in Thailand, and yes it had Philips screws holding the panels on.
Incidentally Honda Insurance didn't even know what it was and the operative kept saying it must be a Hongda(Chinese ) but I got it added to my Scooter insurance for an extra 15 quid.
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Post by m40man on Mar 15, 2015 15:36:46 GMT
I am really confused ..... Not as confused as I am by your ever-changing avatar . |
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Post by GAv on Mar 15, 2015 16:09:52 GMT
Variety is the spice of life.
Pictures are a hobby of mine and since I restored the programs on this formerly redundant PC, I now have photoshop to play with, anyways better be good and stick to one, but maybe not a tractor, as one appears to be going back in time again to that of many carears.
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Post by Reaper on Mar 15, 2015 17:39:04 GMT
....why the screw heads on jap bikes appear to be made of cheese? Cursed the times you try and get them out with your favourite Philips sooper dooper screwdriver only to witness it not biting and slipping out, having ultimately to resort to the impact driver? Well....seems you need a proper tool, (no not the one living in Wantage), but a JIS standard screwdriver..... www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/jis-screwdrivers/You have been bodging bikes for how many years and this has only just come across your path.  Next you will be telling us about metric spanners and how they fit and work better than Whitworth ones.  |
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Post by bev on Mar 15, 2015 18:18:58 GMT
Philips is an American standard. As usual they always think they are right (bit like you) I see you used an American site to try to make your point.
I have repaired many machines in the US where they have been screwed up (intentional ) by Americans wrongly using Philips screwdrivers.
Depends entirely where in the world you are. True crosshead screwdrivers are a cross with a different angle on the blade to Philips.
Having a marine background you've surely heard of frearson cross heads  These are one version of true crossheads.
You've been told.
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Post by n4naked on Mar 15, 2015 19:40:34 GMT
Philips is an American standard. As usual they always think they are right (bit like you) I see you used an American site to try to make your point.
I have repaired many machines in the US where they have been screwed up (intentional ) by Americans wrongly using Philips screwdrivers.
Depends entirely where in the world you are. True crosshead screwdrivers are a cross with a different angle on the blade to Philips.
Having a marine background you've surely heard of frearson cross heads These are one version of true crossheads.
You've been told.
translation: "i'm right and philips/rest of the world is wrong".....of course, we've seen this behaviour exhibited by you before, so no surprise there then. are you seriously trying to justify your "phillips are not crosshead screws" nonsense by saying that "imo, americans are stupid, what do they know"? but maybe it is just an american thing....philips screws were patented as crosshead screws in america...but, what do they know when compared to the oracle? and, yes, i have heard of frearson screws...they are a type of crosshead screw....wiki thinks they are in the same classification as phillips...but what do they know?....wiki isn't 100% accurate, so probably they're wrong in this (detailed) instance. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drivesyou'll find them under the cruciform (crosshead) categorisation. incidentally, amazon.co.uk is not an american site and i didn't attempt to make a point, i simply asked a couple of simple questions....that you failed to answer....but we're used to seeing that behaviour also. since you're insistent on a non-american site, this one seems to be reputable from a design engineering perspective and is based in the uk: www.eurekamagazine.co.uk/design-engineering-features/technology/can-phillips-top-what-has-become-the-most-famous-screw-thread-in-the-world/53675/in case you're having difficulty understanding, the salient qiote is; "Born in Oregon in the US, Henry F. Phillips purchased the rights to a socket screw and redesigned the screw with a cruciform recess. The significance of the 'crosshead' or Phillips screw lies in its self-centring property." but they're british and specialists, so what do they know? bit of advice: you made a complete fool of yourself when you disparaged trev by claiming phillips screws aren't crosshead....yes, there are crosshead screws that are not compatible with phillips screwdrivers but that doesn't mean that phillips screws are not crosshead....look at one, ffs....quit while you're behind. i found these references in less than 30 secs, incidentally, so there are possibly loads....it's not rocket science. trev, good link, mate....it explains a lot. |
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Post by teejayexc on Mar 15, 2015 19:48:20 GMT
You have been bodging bikes for how many years and this has only just come across your path. Next you will be telling us about metric spanners and how they fit and work better than Whitworth ones. Bodging ! How very dare you? That term doesn't cross this far north east from it's origin. I can honestly say, I'd never realised there was a Jap standard..thought all their screws/nuts/bolts where specially made in the Wallace and Grommit factory of cheddar. You live and learn. Whitworth, Bsf, Bsw, Bs, Af, Ba, Iso, Unf, Unc, M.......confusing innit? I have a big King Dick with strange markings in t'other garage, what do I do with that ? |
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Post by crickleymal on Mar 15, 2015 20:13:53 GMT
I have a big King Dick with strange markings in t'other garage, what do I do with that ? Now if ever there was a feed line that was it. |
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Post by pilgrim on Mar 15, 2015 20:19:45 GMT
I have a big King Dick..........what do I do with that ? Must be your age Teejay. |
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Post by bev on Mar 15, 2015 20:21:40 GMT
Philips is an American standard. As usual they always think they are right (bit like you) I see you used an American site to try to make your point.
I have repaired many machines in the US where they have been screwed up (intentional ) by Americans wrongly using Philips screwdrivers.
Depends entirely where in the world you are. True crosshead screwdrivers are a cross with a different angle on the blade to Philips.
Having a marine background you've surely heard of frearson cross heads These are one version of true crossheads.
You've been told.
translation: "i'm right and philips/rest of the world is wrong".....of course, we've seen this behaviour exhibited by you before, so no surprise there then. are you seriously trying to justify your "phillips are not crosshead screws" nonsense by saying that "imo, americans are stupid, what do they know"? but maybe it is just an american thing....philips screws were patented as crosshead screws in america...but, what do they know when compared to the oracle? and, yes, i have heard of frearson screws...they are a type of crosshead screw....wiki thinks they are in the same classification as phillips...but what do they know?....wiki isn't 100% accurate, so probably they're wrong in this (detailed) instance. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drivesyou'll find them under the cruciform (crosshead) categorisation. incidentally, amazon.co.uk is not an american site and i didn't attempt to make a point, i simply asked a couple of simple questions....that you failed to answer....but we're used to seeing that behaviour also. since you're insistent on a non-american site, this one seems to be reputable from a design engineering perspective and is based in the uk: www.eurekamagazine.co.uk/design-engineering-features/technology/can-phillips-top-what-has-become-the-most-famous-screw-thread-in-the-world/53675/in case you're having difficulty understanding, the salient qiote is; "Born in Oregon in the US, Henry F. Phillips purchased the rights to a socket screw and redesigned the screw with a cruciform recess. The significance of the 'crosshead' or Phillips screw lies in its self-centring property." but they're british and specialists, so what do they know? bit of advice: you made a complete fool of yourself when you disparaged trev by claiming phillips screws aren't crosshead....yes, there are crosshead screws that are not compatible with phillips screwdrivers but that doesn't mean that phillips screws are not crosshead....look at one, ffs....quit while you're behind. i found these references in less than 30 secs, incidentally, so there are possibly loads....it's not rocket science. trev, good link, mate....it explains a lot. As expected. Though I probably should have said true cross heads, I should have realised Mr pedantic would try to disparage anything and hit google to try to prove his superiority.
The main point of the thread is that Philips screwdrivers, which are designed to cam out if over torqued, are not suitable for true cross head screws. Incidentally, you really don't need to hit Wiki for this stuff but feel free to carry on, I have no interest in your attempts to show your ability to use google or attempts to make me look wrong or foolish. For the record I have only posted from my working knowledge, I have, unlike you, not resorted to Wiki.
Before you attempt, and fail as usual, to translate my post, it means exactly what it says. I'm not interested in your interpretation of what I meant, your opinion means very little to me. Anyone who knows about the subject of this thread will know what I meant.
Give it up Wullie, you are becoming a sad character, every post does not have to be disparaging, we know, because you demonstrate it regularly, you have superior google skills. 
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Post by n4naked on Mar 15, 2015 20:27:24 GMT
As expected. Though I probably should have said true cross heads, I should have realised Mr pedantic would try to disparage anything and hit google to try to prove his superiority. The main point of the thread is that Philips screwdrivers, which are designed to cam out if over torqued, are not suitable for true cross head screws. Incidentally, you really don't need to hit Wiki for this stuff but feel free to carry on, I have no interest in your attempts to show your ability to use google or attempts to make me look wrong or foolish. For the record I have only posted from my working knowledge, I have, unlike you, not resorted to Wiki. Before you attempt, and fail as usual, to translate my post, it means exactly what it says. I'm not interested in your interpretation of what I meant, your opinion means very little to me. Anyone who knows about the subject of this thread will know what I meant. Give it up Wullie, you are becoming a sad character, every post does not have to be disparaging, we know, because you demonstrate it regularly, you have superior google skills. translation: "you've made me look stupid again....i'm going to use a personal attack on you in a vain attempt to save face, i don't care what you know as fact"....(followed by the stamping of tiny feet) i didn't have to google anything to know you were wrong....i simply had to look at a phillips screw, ffs......i had to google to try to prove to you that you were stupid to have a pop at trev....i clearly failed to convince you...a "true" crosshead screw, my ar$e. bev says: "phillips are not true crosshead screws, despite what all the engineers in the uk and us say"....let's leave it at that and let your postings stand as testament, shall we? dry them...... |
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Post by HRHpenfold on Mar 15, 2015 20:41:59 GMT
Difficult to find though! Really? Just look in your bike's tool kit - even KE100's have 'em . I thought those tools were just toys, they are never usually removed from the plastic wallet, Actually I have chewed a few this past week, probably just replace with normal screws! |
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Post by n4naked on Mar 15, 2015 20:46:45 GMT
Actually I have chewed a few this past week, probably just replace with normal screws! nah, just get bev to send you some "true" crosshead screws....that'll do the job. |
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Post by GAv on Mar 15, 2015 20:48:09 GMT
I have a big King Dick with strange markings in t'other garage, what do I do with that ? Now if ever there was a feed line that was it. they have a British Bulldog as their Logo and the vans used to say King Dick hand tools on the side. By the same token for a brief while I used to do a bakers round in a van that said Glasscocks on the sides. (It was a couple of teanage brothers who worked for Mr Glasscock also, that had sports Go Peds, the one mentioned on the Fissie strand being the FSIE I had a go on, the other brother's a Honda SS50I didn't. ) |
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Post by bev on Mar 15, 2015 20:52:26 GMT
As expected. Though I probably should have said true cross heads, I should have realised Mr pedantic would try to disparage anything and hit google to try to prove his superiority. The main point of the thread is that Philips screwdrivers, which are designed to cam out if over torqued, are not suitable for true cross head screws. Incidentally, you really don't need to hit Wiki for this stuff but feel free to carry on, I have no interest in your attempts to show your ability to use google or attempts to make me look wrong or foolish. For the record I have only posted from my working knowledge, I have, unlike you, not resorted to Wiki. Before you attempt, and fail as usual, to translate my post, it means exactly what it says. I'm not interested in your interpretation of what I meant, your opinion means very little to me. Anyone who knows about the subject of this thread will know what I meant. Give it up Wullie, you are becoming a sad character, every post does not have to be disparaging, we know, because you demonstrate it regularly, you have superior google skills. translation: "you've made me look stupid again....i'm going to use a personal attack on you in a vain attempt to save face, i don't care what you know as fact"....(followed by the stamping of tiny feet) i didn't have to google anything to know you were wrong....i simply had to look at a phillips screw, ffs......i had to google to try to prove to you that you were stupid to have a pop at trev....i clearly failed to convince you...a "true" crosshead screw, my ar$e. bev says: "phillips are not true crosshead screws, despite what all the engineers in the uk and us say"....let's leave it at that and let your postings stand as testament, shall we? dry them...... For the record I wasn't having a pop at Trev, I was pointing out that his Philips doesn't fit the screws he's trying to remove. Probably because his screwdriver isn't a true cross and has different angled blades.
I also didn't get personal before you did. However, I was correct, without google you'd be a spent force. Your continual attempts to troll on here are tiresome.
Don't try to translate this either, you'll just highlight how much of an arse you actually are, yet again.
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Post by pilgrim on Mar 15, 2015 20:57:50 GMT
Really? Just look in your bike's tool kit - even KE100's have 'em . I thought those tools were just toys, they are never usually removed from the plastic wallet, Actually I have chewed a few this past week, probably just replace with normal screws! I tried to use the plastic wallet 'cross-head' screw driver on my chain guard (new bike, first time). Noooooooo! Had to tap it with an impact driver to move it.........  |
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Post by n4naked on Mar 15, 2015 21:03:38 GMT
For the record I wasn't having a pop at Trev, I was pointing out that his Philips doesn't fit the screws he's trying to remove. Probably because his screwdriver isn't a true cross and has different angled blades.
I also didn't get personal before you did. However, I was correct, without google you'd be a spent force. Your continual attempts to troll on here are tiresome.
Don't try to translate this either, you'll just highlight how much of an arse you actually are, yet again.
yes, you did have a pop...and you did get personal first (you usually have to resort to that so i'm used to it by now)....and everyone can see both by reading your posts. are you still on here crying like a little girl?....you had a pop...i didn't need to google to know you were talking shite....so i spanked you...dry them...move on. |
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Post by bev on Mar 15, 2015 21:24:15 GMT
For the record I wasn't having a pop at Trev, I was pointing out that his Philips doesn't fit the screws he's trying to remove. Probably because his screwdriver isn't a true cross and has different angled blades.
I also didn't get personal before you did. However, I was correct, without google you'd be a spent force. Your continual attempts to troll on here are tiresome.
Don't try to translate this either, you'll just highlight how much of an arse you actually are, yet again.
yes, you did have a pop....and everyone can see it by reading your post. are you still on here crying like a little girl?....you had a pop...i didn't need to google to know you were talking shite....so i spanked you...dry them...move on. As I said, Tiresome. Spanked me You need to get a life.
No I didn't have a pop at Trev, and if I did he's more than capable of responding without your help. I can't actually think of anyone on here who requires you to defend their honour.
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Post by bev on Mar 15, 2015 21:25:55 GMT
Actually I have chewed a few this past week, probably just replace with normal screws! nah, just get bev to send you some "true" crosshead screws....that'll do the job. Or the proper screwdriver for the job.
My last response to you. You clearly have little understanding of the subject.
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Post by n4naked on Mar 15, 2015 21:34:32 GMT
As I said, Tiresome. Spanked me You need to get a life.
No I didn't have a pop at Trev, and if I did he's more than capable of responding without your help. I can't actually think of anyone on here who requires you to defend their honour.
as i stated previously, we'll let your posts stand testament to that |
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Post by n4naked on Mar 15, 2015 21:36:10 GMT
nah, just get bev to send you some "true" crosshead screws....that'll do the job. Or the proper screwdriver for the job.
My last response to you. You clearly have little understanding of the subject.
still on here bleating?....each time you post, you merely increase your embarrassment factor. let's hear it for the "true crosshead" excuse....that definitely convinced everyone...hence the reason that everyone is piling in to support your assertion you got one thing right...i have decided that was your last response to me. |
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Post by satnav on Mar 16, 2015 8:54:42 GMT
You have been bodging bikes for how many years and this has only just come across your path. Next you will be telling us about metric spanners and how they fit and work better than Whitworth ones. Bodging ! How very dare you? That term doesn't cross this far north east from it's origin. I can honestly say, I'd never realised there was a Jap standard..thought all their screws/nuts/bolts where specially made in the Wallace and Grommit factory of cheddar. You live and learn. Whitworth, Bsf, Bsw, Bs, Af, Ba, Iso, Unf, Unc, M.......confusing innit? I have a big King Dick with strange markings in t'other garage, what do I do with that ? Me neither, and I've been bodge... erm repairing things for years. One thing I have found infuriating is the use of Metric fine threads. I have have 100's of lovely stainless nylocs, none of which will fit some of the special bolts such as the rear shock and the axles. I also have an aversion to reusing lock nuts. Do you know how much a new OEM lock nut is for the rear axle? £3.16. Now that really is taking the Gypsy's. Have just sourced a fist full of lovely nylocs for less than that. |
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Post by General Gman on Mar 16, 2015 9:57:43 GMT
I'm amazed so few people were aware of the JIS std fasteners
It's obvious that a Pozi or Phillips doesn't fit properly.I bought a set of JIS drivers years ago when I worked in manufacturing and could buy tools at a good discount
There are a few places you can get them if you search the interwebs, it does make things much easier when working on somewhat less modern jap bikes
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Post by DahDit on Mar 16, 2015 11:40:25 GMT
Well, I've learned something new today. Tnx Trev |
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Post by n4naked on Mar 20, 2015 11:14:37 GMT
I'm amazed so few people were aware of the JIS std fasteners It's obvious that a Pozi or Phillips doesn't fit properly.I bought a set of JIS drivers years ago when I worked in manufacturing and could buy tools at a good discount There are a few places you can get them if you search the interwebs, it does make things much easier when working on somewhat less modern jap bikes absolutely....it's a question of matching the correct crosshead screw and the correct screwdriver....e.g. use a phillips crosshead screwdriver when using a phillips crosshead screw etc, etc |
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