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Post by dave on Feb 28, 2007 22:50:25 GMT
I posted this on the other forum, but was advised by Chirodave that it might get a better response here so I thought I’d re-post.
"I really hope someone a help me with this as it’s really starting to bug me.
My problem is my 1995 600s seems to have developed a bit of a delay between winding back the throttle and the power kicking in.
It’s done about 16K and overall seems in good nick. I think the valve clearances need doing as when the bike has warmed up there is a tapping noise, don’t know if that’s part of the same problem or not. Although I’m not 100% I think the delay gets worse when the bike is warm.
One last thing, when the delay is at it’s worst there is an uneven jumpiness to the power for a moment when the it does start to come through.
Any help would be greatly appreciated."
The responses on the other site were;
Fiasco - Possible carb icing
Tour De Mark - HT leads/plugs/coils I reckon
Chirodave - Possibly dirty carbs
Thanks for the above suggestions, which I have a couple of questions about.
Isn’t carb icing usually a problem on long fast journeys eg motorways, I ask because on the ride home from work today (about 9 mile) it happened again, it was wet but not particularly cold and most of the journey was stop start with no real long fast sections.
On the Leads, plugs and coils, is there any way to rule this out without replacing them?
Dirty carbs, I was intending to give them a once over due to bike being new to me and not knowing what state they’re in but how difficult a job is this and am I likely to make matters worse. To be honest I haven’t had much experience but I am quite a practical person so I shouldn’t do anything too ridiculous. Also could you guess at a time it would take a novice?
Long post I know, but I’m a curious beast.
Thanks
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Post by Fiasco on Feb 28, 2007 23:03:48 GMT
Hi Dave
I agree that carb icing mostly happens on motorways and probably colder weather than today. However on my first 900 I used to get it at other times in damp weather.
How about trying some Optimax (or whatever it is called now), in my experience this reduced the problem, I also used to add redex to my fuel.
Ok, so it may not be carb icing, but the above suggestions may also help with cleaning any other types of blockage.
Good luck, I will be interested to see how this develops.
Dave ;D
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Post by teejayexc on Feb 28, 2007 23:04:06 GMT
Hi Dave, from what you say wouldn't think it is carb icing (usually happens at or below freezing point), and I don't think it's been that cold in Leeds today.  You can buy an additive for carb cleaning , it was a topic discussed on the old site, hopefully someone will recall what it's called. For the price of a set of plugs I would start there, get them changed and see how it goes before following the Ht/coil route. regards Trev |
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Post by Fiasco on Feb 28, 2007 23:09:09 GMT
Silkolene ?
Dave ;D
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Post by General Gman on Mar 1, 2007 0:09:59 GMT
right then old chap....
First of all, I'd check the throttle cable for tension / lube / wear.
Then - check the air filter.Then the carbs - take the airbox off and start the bike.
While you rev the bike, watch the carb slides - do they lift immediately when you blip the throttle ? are they all lifting evenly ?.
Balance the carbs.
I wouldn't even look at the ignition until you've checked these - only takes a few minutes.
If they are all ok, then could be coil-related if it gets worse when hot - coils can break down when they get hot if they're on the way out.
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Post by thestain on Mar 1, 2007 1:07:11 GMT
As what Gurninman said - it sounds more like a fuelling problem than 'lectric and while you've got the airbox off, disconnect and re-route the engine breathers away from the air filter. Be sure to plug the holes up with bolts or summat though.
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Post by Ghoti on Mar 1, 2007 10:00:27 GMT
Hi Dave, from what you say wouldn't think it is carb icing (usually happens at or below freezing point), and I don't think it's been that cold in Leeds today. Not true. The temperature in the carb could easily reach freezing when the ambient temperature is as high as 10°C even on a dry day. This can rise to 20°C if there is a bit of damp in the air. This is due to the Joule-Thomson effect (if you are bored en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule-Thomson_effect) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2007 13:09:06 GMT
Got to agree with Ghoti. I've had carb icing on a cold damp day around 5°C so it doesn't have to be freezing.
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Post by Fiasco on Mar 1, 2007 13:30:48 GMT
You haven't used Tesco or Morrison petrol recently ?
Dave :-)
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Post by apricot on Mar 1, 2007 13:45:56 GMT
Why Dave? I use Morrisons petrol all the time(1) and haven't noticed any problems. The old girl pulls OK too as you have noted yourself lol. Perhaps it's the fresh sea air down here making a difference  Ady (1) for no other reason than its my closest garage. |
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Post by Fiasco on Mar 1, 2007 13:52:59 GMT
Hi Ady
They seem to be engulfed in the alleged fuel problems as Tesco (according to the radio this morning)
Not sure if it would effect bike engines in the same way though ?
Dave ;D
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Post by Ghoti on Mar 1, 2007 14:08:27 GMT
The bad fuel (unconfirmed that is the reason) appears to be affected and breaking O2 sensors and that is what is causing modern fuel injected cars to stop running.
From what I can gather, it is fine with older cards and carbed bikes as they either don't have this sensor or it is less important to the running of the engine.
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Post by alpaholic on Mar 1, 2007 14:48:08 GMT
(unconfirmed that is the reason) More than unconfirmed, they've actually tested the alledged bad fuel and found nothing wrong with it. |
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Post by Ghoti on Mar 1, 2007 14:55:58 GMT
(unconfirmed that is the reason) More than unconfirmed, they've actually tested the alledged bad fuel and found nothing wrong with it. So far, I think that it is only Tescos and Morrisons that have released their findings. It MUST be a common cause to the problem with so many sensor being broken at the same time and petrol appears to be the most common link, especially with the fact that most of the people who have had sensors broken have filled up at Tescos or Morrison. If it is not the petrol, it must be the air  . Pitty we are not American becuase then we could blame Al-Qaeda  . |
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Post by derefood on Mar 1, 2007 15:29:00 GMT
Pitty we are not American becuase then we could blame Al-Qaeda
and you think Blair wont?
I'm Canadian by descent, so we tend to blame anyone lol
Mark xx
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Post by alpaholic on Mar 1, 2007 15:38:35 GMT
More than unconfirmed, they've actually tested the alledged bad fuel and found nothing wrong with it. So far, I think that it is only Tescos and Morrisons that have released their findings. It MUST be a common cause to the problem with so many sensor being broken at the same time and petrol appears to be the most common link, especially with the fact that most of the people who have had sensors broken have filled up at Tescos or Morrison. The common cause is damp IMHO. I very much doubt they will find supermarket petrol to blame since it all comes form the same refinery. |
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Post by ContourMac on Mar 1, 2007 15:41:38 GMT
I'm Canadian by descent, so we tend to blame anyone lol When's Due South coming back?? |
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Post by alpaholic on Mar 1, 2007 15:59:13 GMT
I'm Canadian by descent, so we tend to blame anyone lol When's Due South coming back?? I'll wager Derefood has been due south a few times! |
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Post by teffort on Mar 1, 2007 16:00:15 GMT
When's Due South coming back?? I'll wager Derefood has been due south a few times! To the pole you mean? |
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Post by Ghoti on Mar 2, 2007 17:17:10 GMT
So far, I think that it is only Tescos and Morrisons that have released their findings. It MUST be a common cause to the problem with so many sensor being broken at the same time and petrol appears to be the most common link, especially with the fact that most of the people who have had sensors broken have filled up at Tescos or Morrison. The common cause is damp IMHO. I very much doubt they will find supermarket petrol to blame since it all comes form the same refinery. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2007 18:03:38 GMT
Can't wait for Alpaholics scientific explanation as to why it's not all garages since they are supplied from a common source.
Take it away Alpaholic.
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Post by teejayexc on Mar 2, 2007 18:54:43 GMT
[ Can't wait for Alpaholics scientific explanation as to why it's not all garages since they are supplied from a common source.
Take it away Alpaholic] trev |
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Post by CD on Mar 2, 2007 20:45:49 GMT
BBC said its something to with additives being put at a distribution depot, implying the depot supplied only Tesco & Morrisons. Someone's in for a serious dent in their business insurance no claims discount.
Hey "Dave" see if you can get some of that dodgy Tescos petrol. Got to be loads going cheap. If it burns out O2 sensors should soon sort out your carbs :-)
BTW My bro says Redex is well worth a try.
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Post by dave on Mar 3, 2007 17:05:01 GMT
Thanks for all the suggestions above. I’ve bought some silkoline Pro FST additive which should cover the carb iceing and give them a bit of a clean out as well.
I also got a new set of spark plugs which I’m about to fit and I’ll give the air filter a clean while I’m at it.
Hopefully that should help, if not at least it’s rules a couple of things out.
I’ll let you know if it works
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Post by costablancabika on Mar 3, 2007 20:47:58 GMT
I very much doubt they will find supermarket petrol to blame since it all comes form the same refinery. Mmmmm. I was watching this being discussed on Sky News the other day and they had a spokesman from some sort of Petrol Retailers Association. He knew his business. When asked if supermarket fuel was any different from the main forecourt suppliers he hesitated with his answer. He then proceeded to say that some petrols were different from others, that in certain cases, different additives were or were not added to the fuel and that this depended on what the Customer dictated. He added that the fuel supplied to the supermarket chains could indeed be different from that supplied to the forecourt suppliers! However, he went on to point out that regardless of that, all fuel had to meet a certain minimum regulation. In short, what he was really saying is that Supermarket fuel is different from that you would buy on the forecourt. Oh, and Dave, though this is a bit of a thread hijack, I hope you got your delayed power problem sorted out |
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Post by dave on Mar 5, 2007 19:48:59 GMT
I never actually got round to doing what I said above as something came up, but it’ll get done today or tomorrow.
Anyhoo, I’ve just been reading the old Haynes manual and under the trouble shooting section for poor running, it says compression can be low due to improper valve clearances and pressure leaking past the valve due to it not closing.
I wondered if this might be relevant in my case, as it seems strange that the power loss / delay seems to get worse when the bike has warmed up, the same time as the knocking starts, (which I am assuming is a valve clearance issue).
Just wondered if this might be possible or it’s a one in a million sort of thing, not knowing that much about the internal working it might not even be an possibility but thought I’d ask.
Cheers
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Post by werner1 on Mar 5, 2007 21:57:32 GMT
Sounds like a carb problem to me .
Diafragma or gasneedle maybe .
Does it happen at al throttle positions ? (half , 1/4 or 3/4)
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. Pitty we are not American becuase then we could blame Al-Qaeda 
.
