Relay woes 1998 XJ600N

[wills]

I've taken on this XJ600N - see picture in run what ya brung - and the little b*gger won't start.
Good battery, and sparks at the plugs. Not brilliant ones, I must say, but sparks nevertheless.
The book says I should hear the electric fuel pump running, but I don't.
After plenty of poking round, the problem seems to be at the main relay, carefully placed at the right rear of the bike to collect all the road crap flung up.
There's a solid blue wire which has corroded right through on the relay connector block. Any electrical geniuses able to confirm I'm on the right lines?
Also, shouldn't the bike fire up anyway with the fuel tap on prime, even with a non-functioning pump? (it doesn't)
The airbox had a fair bit of oil in it. From going through the old threads this seems to be a known problem, but could the filter get so oil-sodden it affects the breathing to the point where the bike won't start.
Thanks in anticipation for your collective wisdom - I'm still on a Divvi learning curve, I'm afraid.

[HRHpenfold]

if the startermotor runs, then its not the starter relay, when you switch the bike on, you should hear a couple of ticks, as the pump pressurises the carbs, it wont run if the pump is faulty, not even on prime, so make sure the pump is working

[amorti]

HTH

[wills]

Thanks for the help and advice. I've actually got the Haynes book, Amorti, but it's the thought that counts.
As far as I can make out now after a day of poking round with some gash wire and a multimeter, the problem seems to be the relay itself. Everything else checks out, and the blue wire SEEMS to be to do with the sidestand cut-out, though I'd be grateful if anyone can comfirm this.
Back in the 1970s I had it drilled into me almost daily by an instructor "An avometer is NOT a continuity tester..." Thirty-plus years later I still check continuity with a multimeter (just like everyone else!) but it gives me a guilty feeling very time I do.

[amorti]

If the blue/yellow wire from the sidestand switch is no good, it might make the bike think the side stand is down, so the bike wouldn't run. I had this sort of problem on my Fireblade, and don't envy you tracing it.

While you're tracing things, fix any fault you find - it couldn't hurt even if it doesn't solve your immediate problem.

[wills]

You're absolutely right, of course, and it would offend my pride to go around on a bike with an unsorted problem.
It's actually the solid blue wire, which on looking at the wiring diagram again is, i think, the one that inhibits the bike from being started in gear, rather than the sidestand cut-out

[neilmud Lord Protector]

Stop moaning and fix it! I saw what you paid for it in the other thread

Neil

[wills]

I knew I should have kept my mouth shut!

[wills]

Hooray, I've got the little blighter running! With thanks to Bobh who came up with a relay and its connector off a Divi 900.
Half an hour of soldering this morning was enough to do the trick. Panic at first when it wouldn't fire, but it helps to have the vacuum pipe connected from the carb to the fuel tap!
The relay is exactly the same on the 600 and 900 (and TDM 850 I'm told) But only 10 of the 11 pins are used on the 600. Just out of curiosity, what does the extra wire (green/black) control on the 900?
Next stop the tyre dealer. Then a shot at an MoT. Fingers crossed!

[CD]

Maybe the next stop should be to generally check all of the wriring.

If one area is this badly corroded it wont be the only one.

[wills]

Here's the offending connector...one for the chamber of horrors, but from what I've now learned about Divvies it's not the first and won't be the last.

[Flymo]

Nov 29, 2008 0:54:22 GMT wills said:

Here's the offending connector...one for the chamber of horrors, but from what I've now learned about Divvies it's not the first and won't be the last.

mmmm mmmmm lovely, can i get an order of fries and a large coffee with that ;D

Flymo

[ContourMac]

Check the V5 to see if it had a previous owner in High Wycombe

[reborn]

I think I may have a similar problem.

Here's what happened.
Coming home from work, my divvy (2001 XJ600S) conked out on me. I pulled to the side of the road and thought I may have been low on fuel, so I turned the tap to prime.
I turned the lights off and pressed the starter. The bike started. So I set off. Couple of hundred yards down the road I turned the headlight back on and the bike died again. So headlight off into neutral but no neutral light? Turned the ignition off and back on. Now I've got a neutral light and the bike starts again. I rode home without lights and as I was about to turn into my driveway, I put on the indicators and.. you've guessed.. the engine cut out again.
I opened up the light switch on the bar and cleaned it out a bit and gave it a spray of WD40. Reassembled in and tried starting it. Well it started and turning on the lights didn't kill the engine. Well I've sorted that out, I thought (forgetting the indicator switch is on the other bar and had affected the engine also).
I left it running for a couple of minutes while I took my gear into the house, came out and flicked the light switch. Damn! It conked out again. No neutral light.
I stood scratching my head thinking 'time to get the Haynes out' when I heard a click and the neutral light came on? Hmmm. I pressed the starter and it started again.
A friend turned up at this point and I said "I've got a problem with the bike, watch" and turned on the lights and the bike died. This time however the neutral light was still on and pressing the starter now did nothing but light up the oil warning light.
Everything else works, all the lights, horn etc but only the faintest click from the relays. Turning the ignition off and then on makes the tacho needle go up to 2k revs for a couple of seconds and then back down.

I suspect I've fried the relay assembly. Anyone know how to test it? I'll check all the connections first for corrosion.

Sorry for being so long winded on my first post!!!

[amorti]

Have a root around at the wires near the headstock, sounds to me more like you have a short than a broken relay?

[reborn]

Jan 27, 2009 22:36:37 GMT amorti said:

Have a root around at the wires near the headstock, sounds to me more like you have a short than a broken relay?

Will do - it would certainly be cheaper than replacing the relay. Thanks.

[reborn]

Success!!!

No joy around the headstock but a close look at the relay assembly revealed corrosion in two connecters. Both instances were on the lead from the starter button to starter cut off relay.



The pic shows the first one I found and behind it you can see green through the other connecter.
I've done a tempory botch repair with lengths of 15amp fuse wire and insulation tape but the main thing is it runs again!!!!!!!!!

[CD]

Road salt does horrendous damage. When its fixed treat the whole lot with red grease or *chain saw oil. It sticks well and stops the cack from getting in. It does however rot PVC insulating tape so be careful.

* I've found this is great for keeping the winter crud at bay and if thinned with white spirit it soaks really well into bare metal and cable connectors.

[cable]

i have just had the same problem, same wire........ took me ages to find it.

everything traced back to the starter solenoid at first. nothing at the button,but started when i bridged the connections of the solenoid with a screw driver.....decided to look elsewhere and found the relay assembly connector to be carped up.

my wire looked exactly like the one above. ive bodged it up to run for now but will need to sort it out properly, hopefully i can get a new connector block minus the relay assembly.

pretty poor design if you ask me. easily avoidable

[CD]

Divvies are good bikes generally, but they have a few choice design "features". Many are common with other Japanese bikes.

PS This must a be a common problem on all vehicles. You might be able to get new connector block internals from an auto electricians. Or even a brand new block.

PPS Crimps are best because solder tracks up the cable strands and creates a stress point. Until I sussed this one, my vibey old Triumph would regularly snap off its bullet cable connectors. The Divvie won't be so bad, but vibes get everything - eventually.

[reborn]

Feb 10, 2009 14:49:22 GMT CD said:

PS This must a be a common problem on all vehicles. You might be able to get new connector block internals from an auto electricians. Or even a brand new block.

Try here www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php
to order on line.

[biblebasher]

same problem as i had with the blu/wht wire. a quick look isnt good enough. give the wire a quick tug as it may be held in place with crud. dont know what that wire is connected to, but i had no pump noises until that wire was fixed.

[CD]

I recently had a look at my Kettle wiring. One of the connector bocks crumbled to little bits.

Time for a new wiring loom.

[sparky@TLB]

looks like i have the same problem. i have taken about the connectors blocks and clean them, they have some corrosion in them but not as bad as the pics on this subject.time to give the wires a tug i thick.

[biblebasher]

check the blu or blu/wht wire first. that is usually the problem.