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Post by mjh12345 on May 9, 2008 18:47:29 GMT
Hi everyone, this is my first post and I would b grateful for some advice. I have a 600s on a J plate It started misfiring around town but was fine on the open road over 6000rpm. I took it to the local shop and asked to sort out. They cleaned the carbs as they were full of sediment and I took the bike away only to have the problem start over. This time it was the same problem so the tank was removed and found to b rusty so with the help of some gravel and hammerite rust eater we now have a clean tank and no carp in the carbs. An inline filter has been fitted. Bike OK for 20 miles and then the problem returns but it is getting worse and now all four plugs are sooting up at low speeds. A new fuel tap has been fitted along with an air filter and new plugs. Both coils have been professionally checked. I have checked the floats and needle valves all appear to be OK. I thought the pump could be bleeding through but this would only affect one cylinder. And now the flasher relay has packed up. The mixture adjusting screws were set to factory spec according to the shop but i would have preferred the bike to be set up properly. Are the mixture screws regulating the air or the fuel on these carbs please? HELP I am at the end of the rope and there's a skip on the drive. thanks for any help michael  |
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Post by yan101 on May 9, 2008 19:46:42 GMT
i also have a 92 j reg, i have similar problems, i changed the plugs last week and gave it a blast. sooted up again. it takes a while to warm up, and pops n misfires all the time even when warm, it bogs down at the low end till its warm and even then its not 100% when warm. id be interested to see what the forum brings up. ive learned to live with it but a fix would be great. the carbs have been balanced and i have changed the plugs and cleaned the air filter
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Post by mjh12345 on May 10, 2008 6:19:13 GMT
Hi yan101
Unfortunately I cannot ride it anymore as when I pull away from a junction it dies and I have to declutch and rev in excess of 5000 to pull away. Hope to get some replies soon. Redex improves the situation slightly.
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Post by taint on May 10, 2008 12:51:51 GMT
Possibly not much of a help, but have you checked that the throttle cables aren't sticking?
If they've become rusty or filled with sludge, it could be that the throttle cables aren't moving correctly.
T.
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Post by covertcodger on May 10, 2008 16:19:30 GMT
Coil?
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Post by mjh12345 on May 10, 2008 16:36:07 GMT
hi taint and covertcodger,
thanks for the replies. Both coils have been checked professionally by a local auto electrical company and found to be OK and the throttle cables operate smoothly.
thamks
michael
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Post by mjh12345 on May 10, 2008 16:40:35 GMT
Just thought that I would add the fact that the chokes do shut off fully
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Post by darren on May 11, 2008 21:46:47 GMT
is there a strong smell of petrol when it cuts out, and have you removed a plug straight after to see if the plug is soaked
have you done any compression test yet?
doubt it would be coils, as one coil runs two pots, could be the CDI playing up, or the valves need shimming up
the autodata suggest two turns out for the pilot screw, dont know what the haynes suggests, also 11-13 mm for floats
had similar before, that turned out to be worn main jets in one case, and the spluttering on another bike turned out to be crud in the carbs, but if its soating up it sounds like its overfueling which would indicate worn main jets
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Post by mjh12345 on May 12, 2008 5:57:53 GMT
Hi darren, if i run @ a constant 6000 and kill the engine plugs r ok but if i run @ 3000rpm and kill engine it soots up bad. No strong smell of petrol just lots of soot. This has got worse over a short period of time.
I will carry out a comp test and maybe a cylider leakage if i can get the kit. completely stripped carbs myself yesterday and blew everything out @ 150psi-still the same and nothing out of place in the carbs. i don't think float height is adjustable so will leave that @ present. I will check the main jets for wear but i reckoni will b fitting a new cdi unit.
thanks for the reply
michael
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Post by sotirisp on May 12, 2008 12:23:00 GMT
Michael,
I never managed to have clear plugs on my divvy while driving in the city. The only cases where my plugs were OK was when i checked them during high speed driving at highways.
I always thought that this was not "correct" since not all bikes soot their plugs while city driving...
I read somewhere that if you have a lot of carbon buildup on the pistons, valves and combustion chamber, this can cause a rich condition and plug fouling at low speeds.
Getting rid of the carbon buildup in combustion chamber area is another tricky thing...
There are products out there that claim to do that but i never had an experience of it. I am currently trying to get in hands a product called SeaFoam that claims to do exactly this...
Like you, whatever job i tried on the carbs (jet replacement, adjustment, cleaning) i never got rid of the sooty plugs of my divvy, and i rarely drive at high speeds...most of riding is in the city traffic...
As for the mixture screws, (although i posted a similar question some days ago and didn't got an answer) they must be regulating fuel.
Turning them out allows more fuel while turning them in is the opposite.
At least this is what i've been told by another guy on another forum.
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Post by darren on May 12, 2008 12:44:47 GMT
dry sooting would indicate to rich, do as said and check for leakage, this can be caused by weak ignition side of it, make sure the airbox is clear and you have the correct heat range for plugs, I had a virago that hated the correct plug, I changed them for the bosche equivelants and had no probs after that, have you also checked the diaphrams in the carbs he had two of these, I bought one for 2 quid, he has relisted the other one tiny.cc/VIvZb CDI |
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Post by mjh12345 on May 12, 2008 18:39:22 GMT
Hi sotirisp carbon deposits will cause pre-ignition (pinking) and give the effect of over advanced ignition as they will glow red hot and ignite the fuel prematurely. I think, in my case, if there is any carbon build up it is a sympton and not the cause of the problem. I have put a huge amount of redex through this engine and continue to do so whilst i have the problem-it does improve the running. not having and endoscope i have no idea what's stuck to the pistons  |
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Post by mjh12345 on May 12, 2008 18:52:37 GMT
Hi darren
yeah checked diaphragms-all ok. plugs r as spec but if i cannot get this sorted i may change them for hotter running plugs to stop the carbon build up. the airbox is completely clear and the engine is not breathing heavily so no crankcase compression (worn piston rings).
I am begining to think the cdi is at fault and will contact the guy you recommend straight away to ask if he will consider a buy it now price-thanks for that. michael
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Post by sotirisp on May 13, 2008 9:31:48 GMT
Well i'm very curious to see if it's the CDI indeed. Although i think that the electronic ignition either works or not...maybe i'm wrong. But if i was you i wouldn't invest on a used electronic ignition if i had no way to test it before giving my money away... EDIT: Oh, you already bought it...  Let us know the outcome |
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Post by mjh12345 on May 13, 2008 13:59:16 GMT
Hi sotirisp,
i am of the same opinion as you but i've used the Sherlock Holmes approach as i've tried everything else. It was only £12.50 so i'll b waiting eagerly by the letter box for the next few days.
Hope its well packaged as it ain't gonna bounce too well on the tiled floor.
michael
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Post by darren on May 13, 2008 21:08:27 GMT
the thing is you have tried everything, so trying the ignition side of it is the last and probably only thing left, personaly I would be of the same opinion, I would have whent straight to the carbs and more than likely fitted a new kit to it, but its a case of trial and error, you could very well still have worn needles but its hard to tell easily for wear, you could also have badly seating valves, but if you can get the CDI and anything esle cheap, its worth trying them beore you go to any serious lengths,if the problem persists then check to see if it needs shimming up, I know mine does, but I cant be bothered, probably just stick a new lump in and check that before I do
hope you sort it soon
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Post by darren on May 13, 2008 21:12:46 GMT
Hi sotirisp, i am of the same opinion as you but i've used the Sherlock Holmes approach as i've tried everything else. It was only £12.50 so i'll b waiting eagerly by the letter box for the next few days. Hope its well packaged as it ain't gonna bounce too well on the tiled floor. michael I got mine today, just coz I like buying spares when they are cheap |
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Post by darren on May 13, 2008 21:17:43 GMT
But if i was you i wouldn't invest on a used electronic ignition if i had no way to test it before giving my money away... My moto is, if there is a spare of whatever part, then its better than none, and for the price its worth it as a shelf filler just incase, out of all the spares I have bought there has only been once that I got stung, but managed to sort it, it was just the multi block was replaced with bullet connectors on a switchgear, but easily sorted and it worked ;D |
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Post by mjh12345 on May 13, 2008 22:07:14 GMT
Priced the cdi @ £150 so £12.50 is well worth a punt. If it works or proves anything one way or the other it's cheaper than putting it into the shop. If it doesn't then i'll have to do some overtime.
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Post by darren on May 13, 2008 22:30:57 GMT
Priced the cdi @ £150 so £12.50 is well worth a punt. If it works or proves anything one way or the other it's cheaper than putting it into the shop. If it doesn't then i'll have to do some overtime. and you have a spare part on the shelf that stands you next to nothing  |
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Post by sotirisp on May 15, 2008 13:13:01 GMT
I didn't know the price of the used cdi...thought it would be higher
So, yes i agree with you...for that 12 pounds it's definitely worth it !!!
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Post by darren on May 15, 2008 19:23:57 GMT
I didn't know the price of the used cdi...thought it would be higher most of them were on ebay, some breakers were wanting anywhere between 30 and 60 quid, gready gits, but these had been listed before with no sale, and I missed it the first time around, but good things come to those who wait, and he listed them again, got one for £2 plus post |
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Post by darren on May 15, 2008 19:25:14 GMT
Priced the cdi @ £150 so £12.50 is well worth a punt. If it works or proves anything one way or the other it's cheaper than putting it into the shop. If it doesn't then i'll have to do some overtime. btw where do you live, if its local to me then a second opinion may help |
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Post by mjh12345 on May 27, 2008 16:57:13 GMT
Hi darren, sorry no internet access but am back home now. I live in Cambs. The bike is in the local shop @ present. The guy has stripped the carbs and found nothing wrong so i'll just have to wait and see. Unfortunately the CDI unit purchased will not run on my bike. The item is identical but if you look carefully different connectors were used on the previous bike as the connnectors are scored showing that they have been used and mine does not use all of the same connectors.  Did notice all CDI units on ebay have different codes. |
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Post by yan101 on May 27, 2008 22:55:50 GMT
dont think i have an oil cooler???/ 1992 600s
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Post by taint on May 28, 2008 10:04:26 GMT
Nope, definitely no oil cooler on a 1992 600s ;D
I think they added them with the revision in 1996 or thereabouts.
T.
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Post by darren on May 28, 2008 18:08:53 GMT
Hi darren, sorry no internet access but am back home now. I live in Cambs. shame, I have spare coils and a carb, if you were local we could have tried and tested, then would have had an idea what you would have had to replace all I can say is that if you are sure its not fuel/air/leakage related, then its down to the ignition side of things, ingniter or generator breaking down, are the HT leads and caps in good condition also |
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Post by sotirisp on Jun 6, 2008 10:27:45 GMT
Mjh,
did you manage to find what the problem was?
It may would be helpful information to the community if you did so...
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Post by bostonboy on Jun 17, 2008 7:16:05 GMT
my d6 '92 was doing this but not as serious i just used a product called nitrox hot shot bout £6 from halfords.
its increases the octane in the fuel and clears the system out really rate this product i use it in my fazer now.
worth a punt on this stuff ive used redex and it gave me no change but hot shot helped me
dan
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Post by joriff on Jul 1, 2008 8:06:50 GMT
Was this ever fixed? where are the fuel mixture screws? thanks.
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Let us know the outcome 
