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Post by rollingwreck on Apr 1, 2007 12:35:03 GMT
Hi, My Divvy 6 has been laid up for a month now, and despite the docs orders, I sneaked out to try and start the bike up (he'll never know LOL). However, I've been cranking the starter since 10am this morning (recharged the battery twice !!) and it still refuses to fire  The bike turns over but just keeps letting out a rather severe explosive decompression from the exhaust. One blast actually blew a plastic bag full of old rags off the workbench .... scared the heck outta me ;D Anyways, prime and choke don't seem to be doing much. There's a spark at the plugs and fuel is getting through. I even tried the old trick of heating the plugs on the gas stove (christ the missus just read that  ) Is this a typical Divvy trait or has some gremlin buggered the bike up during its 1 month rest? Should I rinse and repeat the process of charging the battery and cranking the bike for 30 secs? Ta ;D (weathers nice today) -RW- |
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Post by rollingwreck on Apr 1, 2007 13:00:50 GMT
Update to the above: I just hooked the Divvy up to my car battery to give me more cranking time. Unfortunately, after a couple of minutes of whirr whirr whirr I have come to the conclusion that something must be amiss  |
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Post by iooi on Apr 1, 2007 13:41:08 GMT
Find mine need a blip of throttle as well as choke to get going.
Sorry, but has it just been laid up because you can't ride or is the cause of the doc's orders.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2007 14:43:17 GMT
OK I've got a 9 but seems to me you have a problem there (magnificent deduction). I can normally start after 6 weeks without too many probs. Have to be careful when connected to the car and ensure you don't have the car running or you could blow something important.
Have you checked that the ground is good and your battery is giving you more than 12V. it can sometimes seem like you have a spark at the plug but it is too weak. Do you have a spark at all 4 cylinders ? Plugs in good condition and gapped properly, I know you'll say it worked fine before the layup.
With the car jumping you may be flooding the carbs with the choke out.
Dunc
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Post by topchum on Apr 1, 2007 16:29:17 GMT
I believe that the kill switch sometimes plays up? Silly question, but it is in the "RUN" position ? Not trying to teach egg sucking etc etc !!! Try switching it on and off a few times in case theres corrosion on the terminals ?
Cheers
Andy
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Post by rollingwreck on Apr 1, 2007 16:40:52 GMT
Sorry, but has it just been laid up because you can't ride or is the cause of the doc's orders. The bikes been laid up coz the doc said I shouldn't ride it yet. I underwent some surgery at the beginning of the month caused in part by a bad motorcycle accident I had 10 years ago. At the time the medics fixed my busted knee, hip and clavicle. However, it would appear they failed to spot the blot clots that formed in my leg. As a result some of the veins have been damaged Can't complain though, the doc said I should count myself lucky that the clots broke up of their own accord rather than travel to my heart or brain. Fortunately, good ole mother nature equipped us mere mortals with a lot of spare plumbing so the surgeon took some out which ran from the top of the leg to the ankle (puke  ). Nothing serious, just preventative maintenance. Anyway.... enough of me sounding like a moaning git (I am).... yes Dunc all 4 plugs are sparking, gapped and clean, the voltmeter gives a readout of 12.15 volts on the battery too, but you might be right about the flooding bit. I'll try again later without choke and see if that makes any difference. Yea, good point about precautions when jumping from a car battery, NO ENGINE RUNNING. I've had mates cremate their bikes like that ;D |
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Post by Andy-Red-Divi on Apr 1, 2007 18:32:04 GMT
I had this a while ago after not using the old divi for a month or so, I suspected the fuel in the fload chambers had evaporated and it needed time to get new fuel through. I left it on prime for an hour or so and tried again. Fired up then. Mine is a 93 divi with mechanical fuel pump so it takes a bit of cranking to get the fuel flowing.
Hope this helps ;D
Andy
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Post by billywhizz on Apr 1, 2007 20:40:30 GMT
if the bike has stood, put fuel tap on th prime, and leave for 20/30 mins, this makes sure the carbs are full.
Then should start as 'normal'
If sparks at plug etc, fuel or lack off seems the only ingrediant missing,
HTH
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Post by General Gman on Apr 1, 2007 20:58:00 GMT
Don't leave it on prime too long - once the float bowls are full, you could end up filling the bores with fuel - this is a bad thing.
Also, just because you have a spark with the plug out of the motor, doesn't mean that you'll get a good spark when the plugs are under compression.Make sure that spark you do have is a lovely fat one.And err.... if you're getting explosions in yer pipes, then surely that means you got unburnt fuel in there...in which case I'd suspect sticky floats.
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Post by rollingwreck on Apr 1, 2007 21:35:52 GMT
Ah you guys are great. There's always suggestions floating around this board offering help to those with no clue..... er .... I mean those in need ;D
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Post by malcky on Apr 1, 2007 21:54:56 GMT
QUOTE: Have to be careful when connected to the car and ensure you don't have the car running or you could blow something important.
This has me confused now, when my bike broke down a few months ago and i ended up flattening the battery trying to start it, i called AA out and they just hooked it up to their van battery with jump leads and got it going no problems (and his engine was running). I asked them about this as i didnt know you could do this and he said its just a battery like in cars.
So has anyone actually fried anything by jump starting a bike with a car??
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Post by General Gman on Apr 1, 2007 22:00:29 GMT
I have never had any probs with it - a battery will only draw as much as it needs.I never, however, attach the earth lead to the bike battery - always stick it on a good earth point elsewhere.
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Post by Andy-Red-Divi on Apr 2, 2007 7:28:31 GMT
In the first few months I had my divi, I had a jump start from father-in-law's car. Strangely after that the regulator packed up and was then supplying way too much voltage into the battery that was then fried.
new regulators are not cheap either! So once it'd got new regulator and battery it was fine.
Cheers
Andy
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2007 7:29:54 GMT
" A battery will only draw as much as it needs "
If I connect a battery to a charging car then the charge of the car is being provided to the electrics of the Bike. My Audi charges at around 15.5V if you want to take the risk and connect that to your Bike feel free. As for the assumption electrical items will only draw the current required, if that were true we'd not really need fuses and relays.
Dunc.
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Post by General Gman on Apr 2, 2007 7:40:39 GMT
I bow to your superior knowledge about electrical witchcraft, but empirical evidence suggests that a charging car battery doesn't ruin things - I've done it on a divvy, a VFR and a gixxer.... never had a problem and VFR reg/recs are notoriously fragile.
Maybe I'm just lucky (being born with good looks and attracting top birds would suggest so ;D).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2007 7:47:45 GMT
Charging a battery or jump starting a bike ?
Charging should be OK as the Bike electrics will be isolated from the charging circuit. Jumping is different as running the bike with a heavy charging circuit can be damaging.
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Post by General Gman on Apr 2, 2007 8:40:31 GMT
Ahhh sorry... jumping - I've got a lovely 40 year old charger that happily charges at 1 amp. I have jumped both a VFR750 and gixxer750 off a 1.8 mondeo with the motor running with no problems. Tried bump starting them , but the one time it worked I nearly killed meself - running alongside a vfr750 in 2nd with the throttle wide open..... not recommended  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2007 8:57:50 GMT
GM
Just because it can happen doesn't mean it will. No idea what charge rate a Mondeo alternator provides. I can confirm that jumping an SR125 from the Audi when the engine is running does produce a severe burning smell.
It wasn't me but I did laugh.
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Post by General Gman on Apr 2, 2007 9:21:35 GMT
like I said, having looked in the mirror this morning I can confirm I was born lucky.... ;D
like I said, I can only go on empirical evidence, and I've never had a problem - doesn't mean I never will, but I do have two spare 14AH bike batteries to play with now.
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Post by alpaholic on Apr 2, 2007 9:23:55 GMT
As for the assumption electrical items will only draw the current required, if that were true we'd not really need fuses and relays. Dunc. Hmmm, Bev, am I right in thinking you didn't pay much attention in GCSE Physics? The bike starter motor will draw the current it needs so the starter motor will be fine - and obviously under load the voltage will drop anyway. Voltage: All alternators for 12v batteries (including your bike's) will charge at over 12v. Indeed a 12v battery will sit at over 12v even when it's not being charged. (For example I put the multimeter on Louise's bike yesterday and the PD accross her battery terminals was 13.8v). So I suspect 15.5 *volts* will be well within the normal range for charging a 12v bike battery. (Although possibly sub-optimal - I think my 300mA trickle carger sits at 14.4v) However, I suppose if you used your car alternator to charge your bike battery for long enough you could in theory cook your bike battery by charging it too fast. However for the short periods of time we're talking about I bet it would make no difference. What you shouldn't really do is jump start a car from a bike battery, the large current it will try to draw will cook the bike battery - and yeah - if you had a fuse in that cct it probably would blow because the car starter motor would be drawing loads of current. Mind you, I can see no reason not to jump start from a car with the car engine off as long as you didn't flatten the battery to the point where the car didn't start next time you used it. |
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Post by alpaholic on Apr 2, 2007 9:29:54 GMT
GM Just because it can happen doesn't mean it will. No idea what charge rate a Mondeo alternator provides. I can confirm that jumping an SR125 from the Audi when the engine is running does produce a severe burning smell. It wasn't me but I did laugh. I reckon that's because the battery was totally dead and the jump leads were connected to red and black on the battery the car was trying to charge a completely flat battery in one hit. ...and it will heat up! To avoid that you just put the Red to positive on the battery and the black to earth on the car/bike. (Suspension strut???) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2007 9:32:39 GMT
No alpaholic i Didn't pay much attention in GCSE physics, I went to school before GCSE. I do have a BSc in electronic systems though.
And you are right in as much as jumping the car from the bike will be a disaster.
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Post by alpaholic on Apr 2, 2007 9:35:27 GMT
Charging a battery or jump starting a bike ? Charging should be OK as the Bike electrics will be isolated from the charging circuit. Jumping is different as running the bike with a heavy charging circuit can be damaging. Mate, this is exactly the opposite way round to reality! You *could*, in time, cook the bike battery by charging it too fast from the car alternator! In contrast the car voltage aint gonna make a blind bit of difference to anything on the bike which (with the bike running) will be well over 12v anyway. |
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Post by eliminator on Apr 2, 2007 9:37:09 GMT
It's possible that the petrol has gone off. Might be worth draining the tank & putting fresh fuel in? OOps just re read that, I focused on the 6 as being months laid up |
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Post by alpaholic on Apr 2, 2007 9:37:54 GMT
No alpaholic i Didn't pay much attention in GCSE physics, I went to school before GCSE. I do have a BSc in electronic systems though. Am I right in thinking your degree is very heavily focussed on *digital* electronic systems? |
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Post by judi on Apr 2, 2007 9:48:47 GMT
You could try kicking it  |
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Post by General Gman on Apr 2, 2007 9:48:49 GMT
And here's me, an uneducated idiot who's scared of wires..... |
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Post by biodon on Apr 2, 2007 9:53:03 GMT
Hi If you jump start some types of machinery you have to be careful not to make sparks when connecting the jump leads as this can damage some types of electronic equipment including rectifiers.So be careful out there.Don |
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Post by General Gman on Apr 2, 2007 9:54:09 GMT
Just a note of caution..... don't use a forklift battery.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2007 9:59:02 GMT
No, although digital electronics are about 50% of the final year I also have an HND in elecrical and electronic engineering.
But I think you missed my point. the Battery is not the issue. I agree that prolonged charging from the car with the engine running could 'cook' the battery. Isolation of the regulator for charging will ensure the bike is OK. If you try to start the bike from a running car then the regulator (which has generally got a direct connection to the +ve side of the battery) will be under stress. On the bike which my friend smoked it was indeed the regulator that cooked.
the presumption that an electrical item will only 'draw' the current it needs is false. I am aware that most alternators will charge above 14V.
Since you've done GCSE physics you'll be aware that current will take the path of least resistance. If that path is to earth through your regulator then it will be an expensive lesson.
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)
). Nothing serious, just preventative maintenance.
