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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 8, 2015 15:42:41 GMT
Hi, am in process of removing my 900's engine but have come across a bit of difficulty with the lower rear engine bolts - basically the bolt doesn't want to withdraw it just rotates when you try to unscrew it - all other bolts are off. It seems as if the bolt collars behind the bolt are turning with it, is it possible they are corroded into place? I don't know if anyone else has experienced this but thought that the bolt should just pull out easily once the nut is off so am a little confused...
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Post by Pool Boy on Apr 8, 2015 21:46:22 GMT
Spray it with PlusGas (or similar)and leave to soak in. Put the nut back on - far enough to protect the threads but not so far that the end of the bolt sticks through. Hit the nut with a hammer (or a substantial bar held against the nut and a hammer to hit it with) If you're lucky the shock will break the rust free and allow you to withdraw the bolt. If not you may need to drift the bolt out but that's likely to damage it and the collar(s) Just my suggestion - if it don't work, don't blame me  |
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 8, 2015 23:26:40 GMT
Cheers have already soaked in plus gas so will return to it a bit later...Your suggestion is pretty much what I had in mind and was trying to whack it out earlier hopefully the Plus Gas does its job.
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Post by bev on Apr 9, 2015 7:09:56 GMT
You don't have the weight of the engine hanging on the bolt do you ? try jacking the engine up a bit.
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 9, 2015 17:57:44 GMT
You don't have the weight of the engine hanging on the bolt do you ? try jacking the engine up a bit. Hi I don't think I did there's a trolley jack underneath it - if I jack much more it wants to topple off the centrestand. |
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 9, 2015 18:01:59 GMT
If not you may need to drift the bolt out but that's likely to damage it and the collar(s) Just my suggestion - if it don't work, don't blame me When you say use a drift (excuse my ignorance) what do you have in mind tool-wise? Something like these I would presume? link |
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Post by CD on Apr 11, 2015 20:51:25 GMT
You need an old socket long enough to go over the bolt head to press on the frame and an extension bar.
Now get a friend to hold a BIG sledge hammer tight against the extension bar.
From the threaded side hit the bolt with a 4lb lump hammer. If anything is at risk hold an extension on the bolt end and hit the bar. That's working as a drift.
The lump hammer shock is totally absorbed by any corrosion because the sledge hammer stops the frame bouncing.
Issues
1 - If the bolt has nuts both sides make sure it's not stepped and is coming out the right way
2 - the threads are likely to get mashed
3 - if you leave the nut screwed on, the threads may still get mashed but now the nut won't unscrew
4 - expect to need a new bolt
5 - if a few heavy thumps don't shift it wedge the frame away from engine and saw through the bolt.
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Post by Pool Boy on Apr 11, 2015 21:25:08 GMT
If not you may need to drift the bolt out but that's likely to damage it and the collar(s) Just my suggestion - if it don't work, don't blame me When you say use a drift (excuse my ignorance) what do you have in mind tool-wise? Something like these I would presume? linkYeah, that's the sort of thing - although to be fair I wasn't imagining anything quite so sophisticated !! An old, unwanted bolt, or bit of scrap bar - doesn't matter really just as long as it fits through the holes / collars / sleeves easily enough to remove the original bolt without getting the drift stuck in its place ! CD's advice all seems good to me - especially no 4 !! Good luck :-) |
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Post by CD on Apr 12, 2015 7:27:33 GMT
Dead right. it's all about hitting it hard enough. If a 4lb lump hammer backed by a much heavier sledge hammer (concentrated force) won't move, it the only option is to cut the bolt.
But then you'll need to press out the remaining bolt shaft.
TBH once it's moving any solid bar small enough to follow the bolt should do the job.
You might need to angle grind the threaded end. Any mushrooming on the end could stop it going through.
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 12, 2015 10:04:31 GMT
Thanks will give all of that a try, will need to invest in a sledge hammer though! Basically the bolt turns freely so appears to be rusted into the collars rather than the tube in the middle, they turn when I turn the bolt. I was trying to see if I could lock them up with a screwdriver against the flat edge and between swingarm but difficult to wedge into place.
It would seem to me if I need to cut through it it will need to be through the collars themselves which would be tricky given the space though I read someone on here did that with a close quarter hacksaw on an XJ600, after that I'm sure it would drop out and could get the remaining bits removed more easily after its released... Looks as if I will be needing a new bolt and collars after all this, trying to get one on ebay - I notice Fowlers list the bolt at a not unreasonable £7 or so but not the collars and tube it would seem.
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Post by rumply on Apr 15, 2015 12:44:45 GMT
I had the same problem.. 87l miles of rust, it wasn't going to mover EVER!
I drilled the head off in the end, bought new bolt and rubber mount.
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 15, 2015 16:05:30 GMT
I had the same problem.. 87l miles of rust, it wasn't going to mover EVER! I drilled the head off in the end, bought new bolt and rubber mount. Sounds like I'm not alone, where did you order the bits from out of interest? It seems on mine the collars are corroded onto the bolt have had a look at Fowlers bits and they only seem to list the bolt itself, have tried contacting breakers but none of them seem to have the bolt and collars...Looks like I'll be hacksawing most probably. |
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Post by rumply on Apr 16, 2015 13:08:58 GMT
I got the bolts of a bloke on eBay, he was selling a job lot of parts, I haggled him down to just the bolts I needed £10 delivered.
The mounts I got from another bloke on eBay breaking a Divvy.
I still have the rubber mounts on my workbench, I've even tried drilling them on a pillar drill, but whats left of the bolt still will not come out LOL.
The rubber mounts are hard to find... but the bolt should not be a problem, there are bolts from other bikes that are the same (loads on eBay) you just need to check the length.
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Post by CD on Apr 16, 2015 21:09:58 GMT
Can you chain drill along the collars and split them?
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 16, 2015 21:48:03 GMT
Sounds like an idea though I have no power in the garage so difficult! I haven't been back to the bike to have another go at it yet but will do this weekend. I noticed there is a flat side to the collars and was wondering if could wedge something in tightly between them and the frame/engine which might help separate them from the bolt by stopping them turning. I have the feeling that it will become a case of needing to hacksaw through the collars though - perhaps then I could wedge them apart and separate from the bolt leaving it intact though if it comes to it can cut through that too. Its a pity needing to be destructive really as all the other engine bolts so far have come off fine without any problems, corrosion making the job difficult seems to me to always be the biggest problem when it comes to motorcycle maintenance!
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Post by CD on Apr 17, 2015 17:25:26 GMT
The chances are the collars are aluminium with so much expanded clag inside they'll never move. Can you borrow a decent 18V battery drill ?
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 19, 2015 15:27:54 GMT
I had another go at bashing the bolt today and have managed to loosen one of the collars off now, only one is now left seized to the bolt the right side one stays still now while the bolt turns. I think getting wd40/plus gas between the rubber and the collar has helped along with wedging a screwdriver in between them and the frame to apply a bit of pressure. I'm fairly confident the other one will come off with a bit more of the same,have left it soaked in plus gas. Think its just a case of getting the same impact force on the other end of the bolt which is harder as its a closed end up against the frame but as you were saying a sledge hammer would probably help.
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Post by GAv on Apr 19, 2015 16:00:56 GMT
Obvious with regard to avoiding anything flammable, have you tried heating it, I sometimes use a small blowtorch which is powered by a gas canister on stubborn stuff.
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Post by chris900divvy on Apr 19, 2015 16:34:45 GMT
Hadn't tried that yet but will give it a go when I return to it. Hopefully the plus gas will seep in and it may start to budge when I return to it, am getting somewhere with it though.
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Post by chris900divvy on May 3, 2015 15:53:57 GMT
Got some enthusiasm together to have another go at it this afternoon, have now succeeded in loosening the bolt from both collars...7
...Only to find that the bolt is in fact also seized to the spacer tube in the middle of the engine, balls! The tube rotates with the bolt somehow I hadn't noticed this before.
I feel like cutting it is going to be the only thing to do with it now, though unfortunately have no power in the garage where I am working on it.
Am wondering if buying a cordless dremel or similar would have enough clout to get through the tube and bolt? Space is so tight under there.
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Post by m40man on May 3, 2015 19:03:27 GMT
The tube rotates with the bolt somehow I hadn't noticed this before. Experienced similar with a rear shock linkage. Cutting it was the answer. I could just get in with my angle grinder, but I think the rear engine bolt is harder, for access, so you have my sympathies. I'd replace with a length of threaded rod rather than try to find a replacement correct bolt. |
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Post by silverdave on May 3, 2015 20:03:33 GMT
Hi
In my experience with this type of problem given the length of the bolt unless it will drift out the old fashioned way with a suitable hammer and "shock" absorber on the other side it will never come out. What has probably happened is that the bolt is now bent, I am afraid that it will have to be cut off in pieces if necessary. I used pieces of broken hacksaw blade fitted in a holder and a modified junior hacksaw to cut it.
Dave C
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Post by chris900divvy on Jun 28, 2015 16:06:30 GMT
Have been steadily attacking the bolt. I decided to invest in a cordless oscillating multitool as I suppose I'm a bit lazy and the lack of access under there really put me off trying to hacksaw it. I've cut the bolt through the centre and the sleeve so its now in two pieces. I think I'll need to also cut the sleeve and bolt closer to the hex end of the bolt next as there isn't enough space to knock the threaded end out but when that's complete I think at least the threaded end will be able to be knocked through the centre suppose its pot luck whether I can knock the other side out but at least will have clearance to take a few blows at it!
Have also been looking at my shock linkage (in need of new bearings) which has a seized bolt where it meets the frame, seems like that will be an angle grinder job looking at what's been done on here (I don't think the linkage is usable anyway as its been left so long the bushes have begun to wear through)! Still I'm happy to be able to work on it as the bike's served me well, it'll be far nicer to ride after all these issues are resolved and I don't want rid of it.
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Post by stukeith on Jul 1, 2015 10:54:28 GMT
I think I need to do this on the 600. The rear bolt is turning in the frame when I move the engine up and down, just not moving. I have been spraying it almost a week now with WD40, with the bike on its side, and rust is coming out. keep hitting it a few times also.
May have to dremmel from behind, has the 600 got the spacers?
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Post by chris900divvy on Jul 1, 2015 21:58:08 GMT
I think I need to do this on the 600. The rear bolt is turning in the frame when I move the engine up and down, just not moving. I have been spraying it almost a week now with WD40, with the bike on its side, and rust is coming out. keep hitting it a few times also. May have to dremmel from behind, has the 600 got the spacers? With the bits I took out the tube was seized solid throughout to the bolt. I had freed the collars on the side up but that wasn't enough. I think there is a thread on here about this problem with the 600 version. |
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Post by stukeith on Jul 2, 2015 10:12:52 GMT
I think I need to do this on the 600. The rear bolt is turning in the frame when I move the engine up and down, just not moving. I have been spraying it almost a week now with WD40, with the bike on its side, and rust is coming out. keep hitting it a few times also. May have to dremmel from behind, has the 600 got the spacers? With the bits I took out the tube was seized solid throughout to the bolt. I had freed the collars on the side up but that wasn't enough. I think there is a thread on here about this problem with the 600 version. Well I got the breaker bar out last night and it just screwed the bolt. so I dremeled the end off to try and knock it off the other way! May get grinder out and remove it, as got new engine, so may just cut the rear engine mout right off also, or drill out while in frame then if that fails then angle grinder. |
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Post by chris900divvy on Jul 2, 2015 19:20:37 GMT
With the bits I took out the tube was seized solid throughout to the bolt. I had freed the collars on the side up but that wasn't enough. I think there is a thread on here about this problem with the 600 version. Well I got the breaker bar out last night and it just screwed the bolt. so I dremeled the end off to try and knock it off the other way! May get grinder out and remove it, as got new engine, so may just cut the rear engine mout right off also, or drill out while in frame then if that fails then angle grinder. I think if you cut the bolt and spacer tube close to the frame on left side, again in the middle and the same on the other side as close to the frame as possible it should be possible to just push the threaded end in through and get rid of most of the bolt but removing the head would seem to be necessary to me to get the rest out on the gear shift side of engine - I still need to do that on the right hand side. This would be provided that the collars are already freed up, I got mine loose after a lot of plus gas wd 40 and locking them up with screwdrivers between the frame while turning the bolt. Total bitch of a job but once its out and I can do my gearbox etc it'll seem worth it! There's a link here to a thread someone made about removing the 600 engine with seized bolt, might be useful to you. |
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Post by CD on Jul 4, 2015 20:26:06 GMT
Lack of mains power is a b*ch but arc weld onto that seized tube may well shift it.
My Div900 exhaust header nuts were seized solid but a blast of arc onto each one and they simply unscrewed.
Make sure alternator and sparks ECU box are fully disconnected.
Don't bother if you can't weld it's all about getting concentrated heat into the part.
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Post by chris900divvy on Jul 12, 2015 13:32:37 GMT
Nearly there now, cut off the bolt head today down to the lip bit, will cut through the centre of the lip next and hopefully that'll separate it from the remainder of the bolt and tube so can knock it through the middle of the frame. Problem is my multitool needs recharging after about half an hour's cutting thick metal! Still I've found it far easier than getting a hacksaw in there and it has many uses besides this. Hopefully the engine will split far more easily than removing it has been...
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Post by chris900divvy on Jul 22, 2015 14:25:58 GMT
Well finally got the engine out yesterday with assistance from girlfriend! The rubbers and collars and remainder of the lower engine bolt popped out easily after getting it out, looked like the bolt was seized to the spacer tube all the way through looking at the various points it was cut - I suppose that's just what 20 years of corrosion does to a bolt.
I noticed its only about £13 to replace the tube from Fowlers, will probably go for the threaded bar as a replacement lower bolt though presumably stainless steel rod would be a better option to avoid this in future?
If anyone has same problem a Silverline cordless Multitool makes the cutting a lot easier and is small enough to get in there under the engine, worth having a few metal cutting blades to hand though!
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