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Post by CD on Mar 3, 2014 21:07:37 GMT
The choke cable pulls a cam that lifts the tickover speed. The chokes pistons can stick open.
Also check for cracked/leaking rubbers between carbs and cylinder head.
Another question - Is the engine revving or is the tacho needle swinging about in strange ways? If the tacho connection is faulty you will get some odd readings but engine note wont follow the gauge needle..
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Post by folderol on Mar 4, 2014 1:58:24 GMT
Hi CD are you the one on here to answer problems about my bike you seem to have all the answers
if I get a problem can I pm you to get a better answer and nots of different things said
cheers Errol
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 4, 2014 20:45:51 GMT
The choke cable pulls a cam that lifts the tickover speed. The chokes pistons can stick open. Also check for cracked/leaking rubbers between carbs and cylinder head. Another question - Is the engine revving or is the tacho needle swinging about in strange ways? If the tacho connection is faulty you will get some odd readings but engine note wont follow the gauge needle.. yeah engine rpm rises and the needle follows So tonight Whole intake system off and degreased Reconnected metal 90 deg bends and used instant gasket to ensure a seal Rubber couplings put on 90 deg bends and used instant gasket to ensure a seal A second set of carbs put on the rubber couplings which had no craks or splits used instant gasket to ensure a seal. When fitting second set of carbs I done the diagnostics to ensure the tps was withing spec Throttle cables and choke cables re routed to make sure nothing was touching them Started without air box and the exact same problem is still there Refitted air box sealing with instant gasket to ensure a seal problem still exists New spark plugs and fuel filter fitted and still the problem exists the only thing I havent taken apart and resealed is the actual air box
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Post by bobh on Mar 4, 2014 20:51:08 GMT
Just a thought - have a quick look inside the cover for the ignition pick up (l.h. side of engine if I remember right) to make sure there's nothing amiss (e.g. loose inductive pick-up) under there.
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 5, 2014 17:25:54 GMT
Will have a look and clean up at the weekend when I fit the new push and pull cables, battery and air filter I have ordered in search of a cure
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 5, 2014 19:31:48 GMT
Is it theoreticaly possible for ignition pick up or faulty cdi or failed battery to affect a bike like the fault I have ?
On a side note the plugs I removed were realy quite sooty
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Post by teejayexc on Mar 5, 2014 19:48:39 GMT
Have you tried balancing the carbs yet?
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 5, 2014 20:19:10 GMT
Have you tried balancing the carbs yet? Cant afford a manometer / carb syncronising kit and dont know any one with one to do it bud
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 5, 2014 21:07:18 GMT
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Post by teejayexc on Mar 5, 2014 21:18:11 GMT
They'd work but you need 6mm adaptors to connect them to the carb take offs. Like these.. www.carbtune.co.uk/carbaccs.htmlYou balance 1&2 together then 3&4 together, then you balance both banks with one another. You could make your own manometer, I think HRH made one up.* *awaits CD with his listen to the carb pop method.
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 6, 2014 8:28:52 GMT
They'd work but you need 6mm adaptors to connect them to the carb take offs. Like these.. www.carbtune.co.uk/carbaccs.htmlYou balance 1&2 together then 3&4 together, then you balance both banks with one another. You could make your own manometer, I think HRH made one up.* *awaits CD with his listen to the carb pop method. Lol auld guy at work says use a rubber hose and listen to the vacuume noise in the intakes lol Bought one to get a reading from each carb to see how far they are off from each other
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Post by CD on Mar 6, 2014 15:22:44 GMT
The pop pop worked well enough for Reaper to pronounce the carbs fully in balance when he plugged in his gauges. You can do it with a single vacuum gauge but need a swap over valve to switch between each carb. eBay also has some electronic differential manometers for under £30 is you dont mind buying from Hong Kong. Chinky linkyBy the time you faffed with all that you might as well try the pop pop method. Low battery voltage can cause a 600 (or 900) to not start even though the starter turns the engine over. So low voltage could cause missfires if dead battery cells are pulling system voltage down. Ignition box faults can cause the tacho needle to flick about (I cant remember the values). Check all wiring to the ignition box and sensor circuits. Miss-fires cause blackened plugs.
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 6, 2014 18:52:28 GMT
The pop pop worked well enough for Reaper to pronounce the carbs fully in balance when he plugged in his gauges. You can do it with a single vacuum gauge but need a swap over valve to switch between each carb. eBay also has some electronic differential manometers for under £30 is you dont mind buying from Hong Kong. Chinky linkyBy the time you faffed with all that you might as well try the pop pop method. Low battery voltage can cause a 600 (or 900) to not start even though the starter turns the engine over. So low voltage could cause missfires if dead battery cells are pulling system voltage down. Ignition box faults can cause the tacho needle to flick about (I cant remember the values). Check all wiring to the ignition box and sensor circuits. Miss-fires cause blackened plugs. What is this pop pop method ? Guy at work says put a tube in the carb and listen to the suction sound then do the next and listen for a differnce . I only managed to get one gauge and was planning on setting them all the same but doing them one at a time .... no doubt take ages this way but gotta work with what ive got .
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 6, 2014 18:54:06 GMT
Anybody got any suggestions on tips on removing the philips head screws on the take offs .... they feel welded in they are that tight
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Post by teejayexc on Mar 6, 2014 18:57:34 GMT
Really good fitting impact driver!
Worked on mine anyway. (Oh and replace 'em with allen heads).
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Post by alan292 on Mar 6, 2014 19:12:01 GMT
Anybody got any suggestions on tips on removing the philips head screws on the take offs .... they feel welded in they are that tight Don't be tempted to chew them Mick....turn the tip in the head of the screw with your fingertips....if theres any play stop....I have a bit in a set which fits perfectly and with the 1/4 ratchet it cracked with no effort at all....your welcome to borrow it.....Ive bought a set of gauges but the tips are 4mm....Im going back into JA's tomorrow to "request" the adapters.....fek I asked for a set to adjust an xj600s you would think they would have mentioned the fact they wouldn't fit....
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 6, 2014 20:12:41 GMT
Anybody got any suggestions on tips on removing the philips head screws on the take offs .... they feel welded in they are that tight Don't be tempted to chew them Mick....turn the tip in the head of the screw with your fingertips....if theres any play stop....I have a bit in a set which fits perfectly and with the 1/4 ratchet it cracked with no effort at all....your welcome to borrow it.....Ive bought a set of gauges but the tips are 4mm....Im going back into JA's tomorrow to "request" the adapters.....fek I asked for a set to adjust an xj600s you would think they would have mentioned the fact they wouldn't fit.... 2 of them have been chewed a bit already (not by me) Any chance of a shot of it tomorrow so I can give it a bash at tte weekend ? Hmmmmm so now You have a set of 4 gauges ? Lol So I have to get m4 bolts to replace the philips head screws if I can get them out ?
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Post by alan292 on Mar 7, 2014 4:31:00 GMT
Im early shift today mate....Im going into JA's after work ...Ill text you once Im home
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 7, 2014 7:20:01 GMT
Im early shift today mate....Im going into JA's after work ...Ill text you once Im home turns out they are pz2 head screws .... just happen to have them at work so sorted but cheers bud
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 7, 2014 7:41:32 GMT
Im early shift today mate....Im going into JA's after work ...Ill text you once Im home lol be racking my brains .... ja is jim allens ha ha been bugging me that has
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 10, 2014 7:46:20 GMT
Have you tried balancing the carbs yet? Just in case anyone else ends up with similar problem I can now say carbs were really close and I mean really close so much so it was really hard getting them closer with the minimal adjuster screw movement required
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 10, 2014 7:57:03 GMT
So it appears to be a slight touch of throttle is letting to much fuel in rather than to much air .... or that's my thinking anyway ha ha
Don't know if it helps with diagnosis but if I cover air intake on air box the revs rise for a few seconds and hold before the bike finally splutters to a stop
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Post by alan292 on Mar 10, 2014 9:14:57 GMT
So it appears to be a slight touch of throttle is letting to much fuel in rather than to much air .... or that's my thinking anyway ha ha Don't know if it helps with diagnosis but if I cover air intake on air box the revs rise for a few seconds and hold before the bike finally splutters to a stop The bike is spluttering to a stop when its starved of air mate.....If you think there is too much fuel try checking the plugs after its been running....if they are really sooty then the fuel to air mix is too rich....or choke might be sticking on...
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Post by CD on Mar 10, 2014 9:53:01 GMT
Don't bother with the vacuum take offs. If two are chewed you cant do the job without fully stripping the carbs.
Find a length of heater hose with about 10mm bore. Take fuel tank off and place onto seat area with a longer feed pipe to fuel pump. Hold hose against carb intake so the end sits well in but can be consistently positioned the same into each one. Start the engine put the hose end into intake and listen to the other end. You will hear a pop each time the engine sucks air. No you know what you are listening for. Hold the throttle on a fast tickover (1500rpm is enough). Listen to the first pair of carbs. Adjust the balance bar until both sound the same. Its important to hold the tube the same for both carbs. Louder pops means that carb is sucking more air. When done do the other pair and finally the centre one that balances the two pairs to each other. Finally check they all sound the same. At this point you'll start to doubt but if they are more even sounding than before you'll know at least its better than it was.
As said before be very critical about the whole bike. Rust, blown bearings, chain, tyres, state of carbs and linkages, battery, sparks box. Is it really worth the cost of sorting it all out?
Pretend its not your own bike and be clinical about it.
Afterthought - is the fuel pump working ok and the fuel tap flowing properly? Low fuel will cause miss-fires.
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 10, 2014 10:39:46 GMT
Don't bother with the vacuum take offs. If two are chewed you cant do the job without fully stripping the carbs. Find a length of heater hose with about 10mm bore. Take fuel tank off and place onto seat area with a longer feed pipe to fuel pump. Hold hose against carb intake so the end sits well in but can be consistently positioned the same into each one. Start the engine put the hose end into intake and listen to the other end. You will hear a pop each time the engine sucks air. No you know what you are listening for. Hold the throttle on a fast tickover (1500rpm is enough). Listen to the first pair of carbs. Adjust the balance bar until both sound the same. Its important to hold the tube the same for both carbs. Louder pops means that carb is sucking more air. When done do the other pair and finally the centre one that balances the two pairs to each other. Finally check they all sound the same. At this point you'll start to doubt but if they are more even sounding than before you'll know at least its better than it was. As said before be very critical about the whole bike. Rust, blown bearings, chain, tyres, state of carbs and linkages, battery, sparks box. Is it really worth the cost of sorting it all out? Pretend its not your own bike and be clinical about it. Afterthought - is the fuel pump working ok and the fuel tap flowing properly? Low fuel will cause miss-fires. All bearing except within engine have been renewed all over bike, new tyre on rear, new disks and pads on rear , new pads on front , all calipers cleaned and moving freely , new fork seals and oil , new brake fluids , new oil and filter , new battery , fuel tap rebuilt , newer fuel pump , new fuel filter , new air filter , new spark plugs , new plug wires and caps , new bulbs all round , new rr , newer wiring loom , all metal work either polished or shot blasted and repainted . So I recon I have been pretty clinical bud including buying the bike all in at around 500 - 600 which I think is reasonable compared to the sale prices round here of old rusty bikes which still require lots of pieces replaced and de rusted and painted This is my final hurdle I did get screws out and carbs balanced then replaced with m6 stainless cap head screws and new copper crush washers On putting in new spark plugs the old ones I removed were pretty black with carbon so think im getting to much fuel as soon as throttle is opened
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Post by neilmud Lord Protector on Mar 10, 2014 10:47:57 GMT
Check the fuel filter again make sure it has not got more grot in it
Neil
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 10, 2014 11:02:40 GMT
Check the fuel filter again make sure it has not got more grot in it Neil its spotless bud
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Post by m40man on Mar 10, 2014 11:32:15 GMT
... be very critical about the whole bike. Rust, blown bearings, chain, tyres, state of carbs and linkages, battery, sparks box. Is it really worth the cost of sorting it all out? Wow - tough crowd for poor old Bigmick - he's only been doing a pretty full resto' on the bike for months . You're nearly there, Mick, keep it up .
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Post by bigmick1981 on Mar 10, 2014 11:50:12 GMT
... be very critical about the whole bike. Rust, blown bearings, chain, tyres, state of carbs and linkages, battery, sparks box. Is it really worth the cost of sorting it all out? Wow - tough crowd for poor old Bigmick - he's only been doing a pretty full resto' on the bike for months . You're nearly there, Mick, keep it up . Got mot week on Friday so will get to try how the power comes on whilst under load as I take bike up, also got a half day this friday to tidy up the loose ends so plenty time for dirty hands and spilt petrol ha ha
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Post by CD on Mar 15, 2014 11:50:15 GMT
I hadnt seen the bike so simply made the point. Continuing with the resto was obviously an easy enough to decide Dirty plugs can be a missfire (old plugs or ignition problem). They could also be the carb choke plungers sticking open. The choke mechanism can move while one or more plungers do not move. A well fitting 14mm open end spanner will soon have them out to check.
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