XJ600S randomly cutting out

[blueabyss]

My '97 Divi 600S has an annoying and potential dangerous intermittent fault whereby the engine completely dies without warning. It first did it over a year ago, but recently it has become much more frequent. There is no pattern to the cut-outs and absolutely no warning (such as spluttering or mis-fire) is given that it is about to happen - I can be riding along normally, when suddenly the bike loses power and grinds to a halt, almost as if the kill-switch had been flicked.

I initially though it might have been a fault with the electric fuel pump as the bike had, on occasions, died within a couple of hundred metres of setting off on a ride – I replaced the Yamaha fuel pump with a Facet electronic pump, but still the problem occurs.

I am now fairly sure that it's an electrical, rather than a fuel supply, problem. The engine typically dies at about 15-20 mph. I coast to the side of the road, turn off the ignition, turn it back on again and re-start the bike. It restarts straight away and shows no signs of spluttering or misfire. Apart form this annoying fault, the bike behaves perfectly, starts on the button and never misses a beat.

I have ruled out much of the electrical system, such as the igniter packs and ignition switch circuitry as there is no misfire and the headlights etc. remain on when it dies. I am beginning to suspect that it could be an issue with the 'Datatool S4 Red' alarm I have on the bike as one of the alarm's inhibitor circuits is wired into the side-stand switch. My next step (after having spent much of this weekend fitting a new fuel-pump) is to bypass the side-stand switch at the relay unit.

I am an electronics engineer, so pretty handy at auto-electrics, but this one has got me stumped. The intermittent nature of the problem makes it hard to find. Could anyone advise me whether there are any known issues with the Divi which might cause these symptoms, or has anybody every suffered a similar such fault?

Any responses would be gratefully received.

Thanks.

[teejayexc]

Hmm, odd problem

As you say intermittent leccy failures are a pain in the ar5e to track, why don't the bnggers just pack up altogether then at least you have a better chance of finding it.

I reckon you're on the right tracks with the alarm wiring though, I hate them with a passion get rid of the bliddy thing . No doubt Camm will be posting an alarm dismantling piccy shortly

Good luck with it.

[Deleted]

+1 agree with your diagnosis and plan of action, alarms are always causing trouble and combined with the other symptoms it does suggest something is setting off the ignition cut-out.

[cam7777]

Datatool alarms are the work of the devil and must be killed


1. Remove alarm



2. Obtain a suitable implement



3 Destroy




Hope this helps

[Deleted]

My alarm went into a large drum of water. Best place for it.

[cam7777]

Feb 13, 2012 12:14:22 GMT bev said:

My alarm went into a large drum of water. Best place for it.

Where is the <Like> button

[teejayexc]

Feb 13, 2012 13:22:02 GMT @cam7777 said:

Feb 13, 2012 12:14:22 GMT bev said:

My alarm went into a large drum of water. Best place for it.

Where is the <Like> button

You're not on fb now, be satisfied with a +1.

[bobh]

Back in the day, there might have been some justification for fitting an alarm in terms of reduced insurance permiums. On a 15-year-old Divvy that argument no longer holds - get rid of it!

I still have one - a Datatool System 3 - on my 9-y-o Thundercat and some day soon I shall have to face up to getting rid of it.

[Sean]

not teaching you to suck eggs but check the right hand gear switch cables that run under the tank and go into various connectors for any breaks....as you know you might not see a break until you pull it out....gotta be worth a look see...especially the big red mains wire.....

Does it do it on a certain corner - when you turn the handle bars to the extreme - try pulling the cable runs until it maybe does it??

I would have thought a single wire somewhere on one of your main looms is the problem that could be fixed without ruining your alarm. With the lights remaining on when it occurrs it could be the ignition circuit - check the side fuses - there have been known to be cracks within looms around that area...

so many areas it could be....process of elimination but as you say it is becoming more frequent (and dangerous) so indicates to me a wiring crack/break getting bigger...

HTHs

[blueabyss]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I will tackle it again this weekend and intend taking the alarm out of the equation and checking the wiring looms and all connections. I have been looked at the wiring diagram to try to work out which parts are critical to the ignition so that I can focus on them. Once I have all the wiring exposed, I will wiggle connectors and cables to see if I can replicate the fault.

To answer Sean's question, the bike usually cut out on the straight and cornering doesn't seem to have any influence.

I'll let you know the outcome of my efforts....

[CD]

Check EVERY connector and every part of the loom where its either bending or rubbing against stuff. Its not a modern car stuffed with electronics and Canbus etc just be methodical and see what you find.

It could also be the battery has an internal short enough to drop the system voltage so the igniters stop working.

[blueabyss]

Okay - it's beaten me!

Today I have spent several hours in the freezing cold, tinkering with my bike.

I have:

1. Removed the alarm inhibitor circuits and by-passed the side-stand switch.
2. Bypassed the fuel pump relay, so the fuel pump (which is new) runs as soon as the ignition it turned on.
3. Checked and wiggled all the connectors I could find to while the engine was running.
4. Looked at the HT leads in the dark for any sign of sparking.
5. Drained some fuel from each of the carbs and checked for water.

I took the bike for a test ride and it all seemed to be well, not missing a beat and pulling strongly. Then I hit a pot-hole at about 35mph and it just died! As I was slowing down to pull it to the side of the road, I slipped the clutch and gave it a little gas - it surged forward again before dieing a fraction of a second later, then surged again, spluttered a bit and then regained power.

I tried to replicate the conditions which caused the problem by deliberately going over speed bumps at about 20mph on a quiet road - again it died after hitting the first one, but regained power again after a second or two of coasting, as before. A minute later it lost all power and ground to a complete halt. The fuel pump was clicking away rapidly but I was unable to re-start it. The tacho needle hovered around the 2000rpm mark for a second or two, even after I stopped cranking the engine. I tried several times but could then smell petrol, so decided to leave it for a minute or two. When I switched it back on, it started straight away!

I can't now decide whether it's a fuel or electrical problem. When it happens, the headlight remains bright - I seem to recall that the tacho reads zero revs even though the engine was being turned as it slowed down, but I could be mistaken here.

Unless someone recognises these symptoms and can identify the problem area, I am going to have to nurse it to a garage and get my cheque-book out!

Any suggestions?

[Pool Boy]

Have you checked the operation of the kill switch and ignition switch in case there's a loose connection in there somewhere ?

[Grumbleweed]

I'm going to throw this in the mix as nobody else has mentioned it: carb icing.
I don't know how hitting a pot-hole can trigger it (!) but the dying and restarting straight away is definitely a symptom.
Then again I had a sickness in my old Divi that I thought was fuel and it turned out to be the spark plugs.
Good luck!

Grum.

[CD]

It sounds like a faulty connector or a wire rubbing on the frame enough to wear through the insulation. Disconnect every connector and look at the contacts. Any that look green or furry, black or slack are suspect.

Even in daylight use a torch and look very closely. Its a pain to do but the only way to find faulty wires.

When you have don the main loom go on to the handle bar switches. They are more hassle so no need to bother if a loom connector is at fault.

The same problem can happen if the battery is falling apart. But easy to test as voltage will be low when engine is off.

[blueabyss]

It's fixed!!!

It turned out to be a faulty ignition switch which would occasionally and temporarily go open circuit due to the shock of hitting a pot-hole or speed bump.

In the end I got fed up with trying to find the source of the problem and could not spare any more time on it, so I took it into Wimbledon Motorcycles. The owner, Dave, listened to the long description of how and when the problem occurred and used his considerable experience to immediately suggest that he reckoned it would be a broken wire on the ignition switch. It wasn't a broken wire in the end, but was actually down to the fact that the rear part of the ignition switch had become loose and was rattling around. Either way, the symptoms were identical.

The ignition switch unit was beyond repair and was replaced with a complete pattern unit.

I have been riding the bike for a couple of weeks now, including doing the Police BikeSafe course, and it hasn't missed a beat.

Thanks very much to everybody who responded to my posting.

[showaddydadito]

Hurrah.

It's good to share these things - sooner or later your experience may help another.

[pilgrim]

Mar 12, 2012 18:31:04 GMT blueabyss said:

It's fixed!!!

It turned out to be a faulty ignition switch which would occasionally and temporarily go open circuit due to the shock of hitting a pot-hole or speed bump.

In the end I got fed up with trying to find the source of the problem and could not spare any more time on it, so I took it into Wimbledon Motorcycles. The owner, Dave, listened to the long description of how and when the problem occurred and used his considerable experience to immediately suggest that he reckoned it would be a broken wire on the ignition switch. It wasn't a broken wire in the end, but was actually down to the fact that the rear part of the ignition switch had become loose and was rattling around. Either way, the symptoms were identical.

The ignition switch unit was beyond repair and was replaced with a complete pattern unit.

I have been riding the bike for a couple of weeks now, including doing the Police BikeSafe course, and it hasn't missed a beat.

Thanks very much to everybody who responded to my posting.

I've just been reading this thread and my initial suspicions fell on the Ignition Switch. Why? Because I had exactly the same problem as you described it in every little bumpy detail! The inside of my 600N switch literally started to fall apart.

Glad you found it eventually, mine took weeks to locate.

I've also had a breakdown of cabling as it passed the headstock. In my case it simply cut out the headlamp.......not very good when riding at night!