Major engine repair

[bo6o]

Here's the deal - I bought the bike(xj600s), and got lied about the condition - it was running fine, starts, even now, on the second... BUT, yesterday I looked more carefully at the manual and the bike again, and I realized that the hose, from where oil was leaking(my other thread was about that) is actually not the crankcase vent. The hose gets into the place of the second rear bolt on the engine's head(the top cover of the engine).This is if you count from left to right - somewhere above the second cylinder, on the inner part of the top. So I think it was made like that, because of some pressure release(buildup) problem. But it is leaking oil and everything is getting messed up.
My question is where can be the root of the problem and is there actually a solution, having in mind that I don't know how much time it was driven like that( I made only about 150km with the bike). Is it repairable and is it worth it. This is my first real bike and I'm starting to hate them all, because of some horseshit eating seller...
After 50km of riding the red clean oil became black, also.

[showaddydadito]

1 - don't panic yet. Mine started spewing oil after a very short time and it turned out to be absolutely nothing of a problem - fixed it myself in an hour or so.

2 - can you post a picture - preferably with the tank off so that folks can see better. There are a lot of very experienced and very helpful people on this site - but you can't beat having a picture of the problem.

[bo6o]

The mentioned hose goes where the arrow points in that bolt. There's no bolt but a hose sticking out of there and this is where the oil is coming from. This is, I think, some absurd modification, because of a serious problem inside. I doubt that any other xj600s has such a hose

[General Gman]

It's standard, fella.
Not had a Divvy for a while, but I seem to recall it goes to the airbox.... so you probably just need to pop it back on

[bo6o]

If it's standard, why isn't it mentioned anywhere in the manuals.
And I did popped it there and the engine could not start(as if there is oil in that cylinder). I removed it and the engine started with blue smoke coming out of the exhaust, and it took some time for the cylinder to start working. Then I tried again - the engine started and the smoke was brown. When this happened I got afraid of hidraulic shock in the cylinder... If anyone can confirm that the hose pops in there - I'll try again risking to kill the engine.

[newell]

What GM has told you is correct. The hose is a breather and vents into the airbox. It is standard fitting on a D6.

Don't worry about the oil smoke, it was just the spilt oil being burnt off.

[biblebasher]

i can confirm that it is a breather hose. open up the airbox and give it a wipe/new filter. mine gathers oil inside the airbox. if you take the airbox off, be careful with the fitting underneath. they can snap.

[bobh]

Those bolts only go into the cambox, so anything coming out wouldn't be related to any one particular cylinder.

If you're concerned about oil in the cylinders, you could try removing the spark plugs, one at a time, and running the engine to see if anything nasty comes out. In any event, it would be useful to check the condition of the plugs anyway. If you run it with a plug out, you'd expect a bit of petrol mist and maybe a slight oily smell, but not lots of gunge. But to be honest, if the bike's running on all four cylinders, there can't be a lot of stuff in there - it would either have been burnt up or blown out the exhaust by now.

If you're near one of our highly experienced members (ahem) it might be possible for you to get together and get their expert opinion. So whereabouts are you?

Bob

[showaddydadito]

Aug 25, 2011 7:44:33 GMT bo6o said:

If anyone can confirm that the hose pops in there -

Just been and had a feel at mine (the bike that is). I've got one.

I seem to recall it is one of the ones that slides into a loose hole into the airbox when you put it back on. (or is it the one that goes onto the T-connector under the airbox?)

If you're taking the airbox off, then while you're at it you should clean through all the breathers that come and go - there's a tendency for them to get bunged up with emulsion from the water condensation that gets into the oil. Some bikes have a problem with a big breather hose that gets constricted when you put the tank back on, which you can replace with nice strong garden hose to prevent the problem.

While you're at it, clean all spilt oil off everywhere you can - this will otherwise cause smoke and smell when the motor gets hot and can cause unnecessary worry.

(if you think any of this is scary, wait till you service your brakes!)

[Deleted]

Aug 25, 2011 9:59:28 GMT showaddydadito said:

Just been and had a feel at mine (the bike that is). I've got one.

Excellent news, though I suspect if you didn't know you had a bike you wouldn't have joined here in the first place. Surprised you had to have a feel to confirm though, Senility ?

[showaddydadito]

Aug 25, 2011 10:26:29 GMT bev said:

Senility ?

ooh - yes please!

[bo6o]

Thanks people. I'm going back home in a few hours, I'll plug in the hose to the air filter box and give it a new try, hopefully there will be no problem this time.
I'm from Bulgaria - someone asked, so I don't believe anyone from the forum is near me
I changed the air filter in monday. Cross your fingers, if not tonight, I'll tell you what happened tomorrow morning, and thanks again.

[amorti]

We've done this...

the main breather gets kinked, so that mini one gets overloaded, and pops off, or fills with oil which causes it to split. Replace the main hose with something stronger which won't kink / get trapped between airbox and tank (it does even if you can't see it doing it) and then you can blank off that secondary breather. It is meant to help against carb icing but I don't think it's much good. Just add about 170ml IPA to your tank through winter.

[bo6o]

OK. So now the bike is fine. The restricted hose from the crankcase will be changed(it is smacked by the fuel tank).
If everything is fine, I only have to lub the chain and change the fuel filter and I'm ready for the rest of the season
Thanks people. Yesterday you made my day

[bobh]

Great. Enjoy!

[bo6o]

One last question - is the other end of the hose from the pic(the second arrow), actually the crankcase vent hose, going into any plug, or is it just going under the fuel tank and somewhere there under, free???

[newell]

Hello again - More problems with breathers?

The large bore pipe you refer to is a crankcase breather which loops up to the rear of the air-cleaner housing and push-fits on, when you have the tank off you can't mistake it due to its large bore size.

[bo6o]

Thanks. I'll check it tomorrow. So much hoses and pipes were not on their place, that I got messed up

[newell]

Yes it's easy when you're familiar with an engine. Not so easy if it's all new to you and it's been messed with.

You have any questions just ask away. Someone on here will sort it.
No problem.

[bo6o]

And again one question, because I'm thinking of cleaning the carbs.
So when the bike is at working temp, I can either drive it under 3000rpm or above 4000rpm - the first is calm normal riding(I like it the most) and the second is a bit aggressive and more dangerous. The problem is that in the first kind it takes some squeezing the throttle to get over 3-4000rpm, if I need to go faster, and this happens quite jumpy. If I try to make it smooth - it takes minutes to accelerate. When starting slow - I suspect the left most cylinder isn't working.
I hope you understand me right - there's something like choking somewhere between 3000 and 4000 rpm, depending on the driving - fast or calm.
Am I driving it not the right way and will cleaning the carbs will do it. Also valve adjustment is in my mind, but I'll leave it for the next season.

[newell]

Yes it sounds like your carbs need a clean. What you describe, having to carefully feather the throttle is typical of partially blocked pilot jets.

You will have to remove the carburettors to clean them. That will mean removing the seat, tank and air-box.

This job is not too difficult but there are things to watch out for (like chewing up the float chamber screws!).

Would you feel confident enough to tackle the job? If you are not sure get a quote for the job from your local mechanic.

The other thing that would cause the hesitancy in throttle action you describe is sticking throttle cables. Remove the tank to check they move smoothly and there are no sharp bends in the cables.

Shame you are so far away, but Bulgaria is a bit of a trot from London.

[amorti]

Yup, open carbs and clean thoroughly, maybe check the valves is due, and then balance carbs.

The biggest difference will be in cleaning the carbs if you do have a blocked jet, but it's worth investigating the valves for peace of mine. Balancing carbs smooths idle and low-revs performance.

Clean jets like this:
www.therevcounter.com/mechanics/68107-carb-cleaner-vs-jets.html#post1430429

[bo6o]

The procedure will be done by a skilled man. But I'm starting to wonder, because this happens only on the way back from work. When I go, it's a little colder, and on the way back warmer. If it was from the carbs, shouldn't it happen all the time, not only when it's hot?

[bo6o]

Some more symptoms - I think when it's hot, cylinder 1 or 2 don't get fired on lower rpm, but if I throttle in neutral - they have no problem working. What's the temperature role in here. Can oil be the reason (15W50 semi synthetic)? Carbs? If I clean the carbs and sync them, and after that adjust the valves, should I sync them again - in order to figure out what to do first and where to search for the reason.

[newell]

I feel you are confusing the problem, maybe reacting prematurely to a badly running engine.

From what you have said it appears you need to:

1) Clean the carbs. Hopefully your mechanic will check the carbs for defects while it is on the bench (like diaphragms).

2) Balance (sync as you say) the carbs.

3) Check and adjust the valve clearances.

When this is done you will have the engine tuned correctly and I think some of these faults will sort themselves.

If after all that work (and expense!) you still have problems then your initial fears that you have been sold a dodgy bike will be correct.
Only you can decide if the bike warrants the cost.

[bo6o]

Nope, the mechanic will just clean and balance the carbs. That's why I'm asking if the valves can be adjusted after that without the need to sync the carbs again, cause I'll use a different mechanic for the valves. Cross fingers that carbs are the problem...

[sledgegreen]

Lots of good advice here about routing the pipes correctly, but nobody seems to have commented on your missing bolt. Apologies if someone has mentioned it and I have missed it.

Those bolts have an O-ring each, and leaving out the O-ring allows a surprising amount of oil to escape - enough to cover the right hand side of my engine and my right foot in approx 60 miles from Streatham to Oxford. If you have an entire bolt missing, I suspect that the oil will flood out.

Is it possible that a previous owner has lost the bolt, and then fitted an extra pipe to drain the escaping oil, rather than allow it to spray all over the engine?

[bobh]

The valve clearances would have to be a very long way out (e.g. if an inlet valve wasn't closing properly, so there was blow-back through the carb) to affect the carb synchronisation.

[newell]

Sledgegreen - There is no 'missing bolt'. What 'Bo6o' took for a missing bolt was in fact the breather tube bolt from the cam box. He has replaced the tube to this, which has sorted the oil leak

[bo6o]

So... The problem "Ends", where it started - from the breather from the valve cover. Today I disassembled the air filter box, and on the first 2 carbs there were traces of oil on their air inlet. So this means that it is still spitting oil trough that hose, right into the carbs and that's why they choke.
This explains why the problem happens only when it's hot. The oil is exactly 2.5 litters, with the oil filter changed - so it's not too much. The engine is not overheating. The carbs choke only when I drive - if I rev the engine in neutral - no choking, no blue smoke from behind.

Why is this little hose spitting oil, and is it curable, cause I'm starting to.... depress, I guess. I'm near speeding the bike over a cliff...