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Post by bigpee on Jul 4, 2011 11:24:10 GMT
Hi - I have a 98 plate XJ 600S with just over 30000 miles on the clock. About two months ago I had starting issues which seemed to be resolved when I replaced the bushes in the starter motor and gave it a good clean. However now I have the following issues:
When I turn the key in the ignition the neutral light shows. I press the starter button, hear the relay click but nothing else. If I have the engine kill switch on I do not hear the relay click.
I have checked and replaced the connectors around the blue wire in the wiring loom which often causes issues.
At the end of a 20 minute run the motor did turn over when I started it which makes me think the battery might be on it's way but does this sound right? Using a volt meter it gives a reading of 11.97 which dropped to 11.77 when pressing the starter button and did not recover when I released. I don't want to buy a new battery if it's not the answer so wanted to check first. I have checked the wiring between the start motor and relay and it seem in good order, clean and tight.
Thanks for you help, Alan
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2011 11:46:27 GMT
Sounds like you need a new battery. A decent battery usually has well over 12V.
When the bike's running is it charging ?
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Post by cam7777 on Jul 4, 2011 12:15:35 GMT
I have a couple of questions:
1. How old is the battery?
2. Does it start with a jump start?
If the answer to 2 is yes, what is the voltage across the + and - terminals at 2000 rpm?
I now have a couple of answers:
1. If the battery is over 3 years old then it possibly needs changing
2. If the voltage at 2000rpm is less than 13.8v across the terminals, suspect rectifier/regulator or alternator.
If the voltage at 2000rpm is more than 15v across the terminals, suspect rectifier/regulator which will eventually kill the battery.
HTH
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Post by bigpee on Jul 4, 2011 12:39:44 GMT
Thanks for the replies - I will take my voltmeter to work and record the readings as suggested above.
I bought the bike about two years ago and have not replaced the battery since. I do not know how old it was when I bought it so there is a good chance it is over three years old.
Yes the bike jump starts fortunately quite easily. I will update with results of checks. Alan
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Post by bobh on Jul 4, 2011 17:36:05 GMT
Do you have access to an Optimate or similar intelligent charger? They can be a good guide to battery condition, and can even recover a battery that's down but not quite out.
It actually takes a couple of hours or more of running (open road, not stop-start traffic) to fully charge a battery. So if the bike's used for short trips it may not get a chance to charge up, and lead-acid batteries don't like being left in a discharged condition for long.
The fact that the bike jump starts and then runs OK implies that it is generating enough power for the ignition and, presumably headlight etc. So I'd definitely look at getting hold of a charger as the first step.
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Post by bigpee on Jul 4, 2011 23:33:17 GMT
Do you have access to an Optimate or similar intelligent charger? They can be a good guide to battery condition, and can even recover a battery that's down but not quite out. It actually takes a couple of hours or more of running (open road, not stop-start traffic) to fully charge a battery. So if the bike's used for short trips it may not get a chance to charge up, and lead-acid batteries don't like being left in a discharged condition for long. The fact that the bike jump starts and then runs OK implies that it is generating enough power for the ignition and, presumably headlight etc. So I'd definitely look at getting hold of a charger as the first step. Probably not a bad idea. I use my bike about 4 days a week for a 15 minute / 10 mile commute to work and back again, sometimes with heated grips on and always with lights. Sure it doesn't do the battery any favours. I checked the voltage after one leg and it read 12.12v so it had gone up. Couldn't check at 2000rpm though as I wasn't in a position to jump start with the seat off (only had one set of keys with me so had to turn off to remove seat). I always thought a low battery would at least make a feeble noise with the starter motor though and there is nothing. Am I wrong in thinking this? |
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Post by DahDit on Jul 4, 2011 23:48:18 GMT
Have you got some jump leads and another vehicle available? If so, how does it start with outside assistance?
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Post by bigpee on Jul 5, 2011 11:49:15 GMT
I have a couple of questions: 1. How old is the battery? 2. Does it start with a jump start? If the answer to 2 is yes, what is the voltage across the + and - terminals at 2000 rpm? I now have a couple of answers: 1. If the battery is over 3 years old then it possibly needs changing 2. If the voltage at 2000rpm is less than 13.8v across the terminals, suspect rectifier/regulator or alternator. If the voltage at 2000rpm is more than 15v across the terminals, suspect rectifier/regulator which will eventually kill the battery. HTH Right - I've tested the voltage at 2000rpm and it's 13.88v so just inside the range specified. When I turn on the lights however it drops to 12.77v. I've also tested the continuity between the starter solinoid and starter motor and it's fine so the motor should be getting juice since the solinoid clicks when I press the starter motor. Very tempted to buy the optimate 4 having checked it out but only if it's the likely cause. Today I'll try and jump start the bike to see if it works off another battery. |
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Post by cam7777 on Jul 5, 2011 12:15:32 GMT
It could be the starter motor, even though you have changed the brushes  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 12:28:52 GMT
Still sounds like a bad battery to me.
Would the starter cause a volt drop when switching on the lights ? It shouldn't be energised when the bike's running.
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Post by cam7777 on Jul 5, 2011 12:35:07 GMT
Still sounds like a bad battery to me.
Agreed, although the click could be starter related.
Would the starter cause a volt drop when switching on the lights ? It shouldn't be energised when the bike's running.
Of course not, a heavily discharged battery would have that effect.
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Post by DahDit on Jul 5, 2011 12:53:29 GMT
Very tempted to buy the optimate 4 having checked it out but only if it's the likely cause. Today I'll try and jump start the bike to see if it works off another battery. The Optimate isn't a miracle cure for dead batteries and the jury is out regards their effectiveness overall. If it is the battery at the end of it all, I'd keep the battery charged by riding it during summer/autumn and if you tend to leave the bike over winter, use one of Lidl/Aldi's battery charger units that they do on special offer from time to time. They go for about £14, identical to these - www.ctekchargers.co.uk/ctek-xs3600.phpWe don't have power in the garage that I store the bikes in, so I've hooked up a 10w solar panel to a battery charge controller and it works really well topping both bikes up during the daylight hours. Good luck with sorting it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 13:05:45 GMT
Would the starter cause a volt drop when switching on the lights ? It shouldn't be energised when the bike's running. Of course not, a heavily discharged battery would have that effect. I wasn't really asking, just that somebody suggested it might still be the starter motor.  Although to be fair a click and nothing else could be the starter, unlikely when coupled with the Volt drop with the lights. New battery will most likely be the final solution. |
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Post by bigpee on Jul 5, 2011 23:33:17 GMT
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Think I have narrowed it down now. Today I hooked up a jump pack and the bike still didn't start. This suggests to me it's either the solinoid or the starter motor. I then checked the voltage reaching the starter motor. This was 11.7v when the starter button was pressed and zero when not pressed which is pretty much what I'd expect. The motor didn't make the slightest noise so I'm going to take it apart again tomorrow and give it a good check over.
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Post by bigpee on Jul 6, 2011 10:04:33 GMT
It could be the starter motor, even though you have changed the brushes Bingo - after realising power was getting to the motor I took it apart again and tested continuity over the brush connections. Sure enough my dodgy soldering had let me down. No power was coming through the bolt to one of the brushes. A big dab of solder and it works again  . Thanks for all the replies (and having read them I'm in no doubt I'll need a new battery soon too but fortunately that can wait a pay day or two). Alan |
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Post by DahDit on Jul 6, 2011 10:06:42 GMT
Woo hoo! |
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Post by cam7777 on Jul 6, 2011 11:44:27 GMT
Well done |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 11:59:48 GMT
Well done indeed.
It doesn't explain the Voltage drop with the lights on though.
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. Thanks for all the replies (and having read them I'm in no doubt I'll need a new battery soon too but fortunately that can wait a pay day or two).