Thrust Bearing (now with pics)

serenaur
CBT failure

Posts: 11

Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 16, 2008 23:00:26 GMT

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Post by serenaur on May 16, 2008 23:00:26 GMT

A while ago I started experiencing rapid clutch wear, so much so that I'd adjusted the barrel adjuster on the clutch lever AND the engine barrel adjuster to their maximum within about 2 weeks. Everyone I spoke was sure that it was just my cable stretching or something simple like that but I knew this wasn't the case. In the end the clutch was rendered useless. Pulling the lever had no effect whatsoever on the operation of the clutch (apart from it stopped the rattle). I had to bump start the bike, change up and down the box without the clutch and hope I didn't have to stop on the journey as the bike would stall and I'd have to bump start again as starting the bike in neutral and knocking it into first obviously just stalled it.

Anyway, as it happens I've since bought a new bike but I'd very much like to keep the XJ for a work commuter and to teach the good lady how to ride on.

I finally started to get to work on it today with the help of a friend and and we drained the oil and took off the clutch cover. Neither us really knew what we were looking at, so much checking against the pictures in my manual ensued. We got as far as taking the clutch plates off when we decided to re check against the illustration only to find that I had no thrust bearing at all and that there was swarf and metal shavings on the inside case of where the clutch plates are (sorry for lack of technical knowledge). I'm pretty sure that while I was adjusting the barrel adjusters and my clutch was deteriorating rapidly it was really the thrust bearing eating itself and then it finally failed making my clutch useless.

Cover off, shavings coming out of the hole in the middle.

Inside of the cover... Definitley going to need to flush all the gunk out!

Springs, a bit rusty.

Lots of shavings and filings here, you can even see whats left of the race of the disintegrated bearing

Plates, do they look ok?

More shavings.

I'm worried about a few things. Firstly I'm worried that metal shavings and swarf may have worked it's way into where it doesn't need to be. It still rides fine with no loss of performance but I'm worried nonetheless. Secondly, although there is no thrust bearing I haven't ever ventured into the internals of a bike before so I don't know if there's anything else wrong with it, I'm going to replace the thrust bearing and see what happens after that.

I'm just after some feedback really, has anyone else ever experienced similar symptoms? Does it sound like I'm on the right track? What else should I be looking out for? Where can I get a thrust bearing from? I've looked on wemoto and it wasn't listed on there. I will be uploading pictures tomorrow to show you in detail what I'm talking about as I understand my lack of technical knowledge makes everything seem a bit hazy! Any feedback is much appreciated

Thanks,

Rob

Last Edit: May 18, 2008 21:11:59 GMT by serenaur

neilmud Lord Protector Resident Gossip Sadly Lost to us. The land of the South Saxons. Posts: 6,910	Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 16, 2008 23:20:07 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by neilmud Lord Protector on May 16, 2008 23:20:07 GMT I fink you broke it ;D Neil Mek a nic to the stars. ( sorry just back from the pub hope you sort it ok)
	"Time is just natures way of stopping everything happening at once" so if I'm late its not my fault. Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of England, Scotland and Ireland Republic rules Uk

cam7777 Guest	Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 17, 2008 8:48:40 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by cam7777 on May 17, 2008 8:48:40 GMT Sounds like a case of Reepers DVD to help you along, DVD has an excellent section on the clutch.

taint
Guest

Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 17, 2008 9:34:12 GMT

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Post by taint on May 17, 2008 9:34:12 GMT

I'm not a mechanic, so I'm going to be working from a rough knowledge of the internal layout of the engine. It's probably worth double checking with a real mechanic.

Theoretically, the metal shouldn't manage to get into any of the more delicate workings of the engine. The clutch sits directly over the oil tray; the lowest part of the engine. So any metal flakes will drop into the oil; which then has to pass through the oil filter before passing back into the main part of the engine. This should have cleared any of the flakes; but will mean an oil and filter change, plus it would be worth flushing the engine with a 'detergent oil' (a different grade; such as diesel oil) to remove any flakes that have settled; prior to changing the filter.

As for the replacement thrust bearing, it may be easiest to order it direct from a yamaha dealer. If you know the size and type, it may be possible to get a generic replacement, but at least with an original yamaha part it's guaranteed to be the correct grade. You could try here simplybearings.co.uk/shop/ for a generic replacement.

I hope this helps

T.

General Gman Administrator Posts: 4,827	Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 19, 2008 8:18:09 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by General Gman on May 19, 2008 8:18:09 GMT I would drop the sump to clear the swarf - doen't take long, and easily done while you have the clutch out.
	Z900RS

taint
Guest

Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 19, 2008 8:41:13 GMT

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Post by taint on May 19, 2008 8:41:13 GMT

Seems awfully rusty in there

; fair bit of mayo too, looks like you're getting condensation build-up inside the engine. It'd be worth checking that the breather hose isn't blocked or kinked. Also worth checking the condition of the air filter; to ensure a clear airflow.

The plates look alright; they've still got a decent amount left to the wear indicators (the grooves in the black stuff). May be worth separating them and giving them a clean; to get rid of any metal particles.

If you're dropping the sump, it may be worth having a replacement gasket on hand, just in case the original one doesn't separate cleanly. Should only be a couple of pounds from a yamaha dealer.

Hope this helps

T.

serenaur
CBT failure

Posts: 11

Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 19, 2008 10:14:43 GMT

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Post by serenaur on May 19, 2008 10:14:43 GMT

Do I have to drop the engine out of the frame to get the sump off?

I've never been this far into an engine before and I'm a bit apprehensive about going much further because as you can probably tell I don't really have much idea what I'm looking at!

I know the breather hose is probably blocked or kinked as it was dripping oil from a breather tube onto the floor and I had an oily film in the airbox before it decided to crunch the bearing.

Wemoto is showing £9 for a set of EBC heavy duty clutch springs so I'll probably get those to replace the rusted ones and I'll get some new gaskets, an oil filter and one of those sump plug washers while I'm there although they don't list thrust bearings so I'm going to have to get ripped off at my local dealers for that one!

I have a can of clutch cleaner handy so that's no problem, I guess the next step is tackling the sump!

Thanks a lot for all the really helpful replies!

General Gman Administrator Posts: 4,827	Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 19, 2008 11:53:14 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by General Gman on May 19, 2008 11:53:14 GMT You'll have to remove the exhaust to get at the sump, but that's all, I think (please do correct me if I'm wrong, anybody - I'm going on past experience on other bikes).
	Z900RS

amorti
Second To Some

Posts: 1,414

Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 19, 2008 16:36:45 GMT

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Post by amorti on May 19, 2008 16:36:45 GMT

OK..

remove the sump, do it first and check if the gauze strainer (I'm guessing there is one) is blocked. If it is, it could get to be a worse job than you'd hope.

the springs and various bits are rusty, and there's mayo. My guess, the bike stood over winter? With moisture in the engine, and no running oil on the parts, they would rust. Same thing will have happened to the bearing, lunching it.

Forget EBC springs unless you have a strong grip, normal ones are fine and cheap enough. Get on to Fowlers and grab yourself at least a sump and cover gasket, OE springs, thrust bearing and that pushrod bit looks knackered to me, too.

You'll ned to get/borrow/use a rattle gun to remove the clutch basket and clean the swarf out. Don't clean it in situ would be my tip, unless you really really have to. I would re-use the clutch plates myself, after giving them a solid clean in detergent, and then a soaking in clean new/used oil.

Have a good go at the main breather that goes onto the clutch case, I bet it's kinked and useless. I replaced mine with a bit of garden hose, fits, is thick and won't kink... also very cheap. I hope it's oil proof, but who cares as there shouldn't ever be any oil on it looking at the baffling of the clutch case.

I removed the top breather as it had perished and was leaking, and probably causing the puddle of oil issue, too.

So, there's a few things to think about.

While you're at it, learn something! Look at it this way, if it's broken you can't make it worse. If it's only a little bit broken, you can fix it. If it's OK, it doesn't matter much if you break it, as it's not worth much money anyway, and you can't get more than pennies for it as is.

All the best =) Aaron

'14 MSX125 in red, '04 BMW 650gs in blue, '98ish XJ600S project in burgundy

amorti
Second To Some

Posts: 1,414

Thrust Bearing (now with pics) May 19, 2008 16:43:03 GMT

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Post by amorti on May 19, 2008 16:43:03 GMT

Worth noting, I ordered some springs from Fowlers, they got me the bits from the fiche but they were wrong, too short and didn't fit. Worth getting the guy on the phone to go over it!

The top breather can be removed easily, and causes no issues with running since i did it about 4k ago. Order one OE rocker cover bolt, replace the stub bolt with it, and pop a suitable countersunk in the airbox T joint to close that off = job done. Just in this case it's doubly important to keep the main breather free.

'14 MSX125 in red, '04 BMW 650gs in blue, '98ish XJ600S project in burgundy

studiverts CBT failure Posts: 10	Thrust Bearing (now with pics) Jul 24, 2008 19:14:41 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by studiverts on Jul 24, 2008 19:14:41 GMT Same problem - note bearing had caused WEAR to plate - meant clutch toothed pin stuck out too much and so of no use - used a washer to keep pin back.

qtws
Harley Rider

Posts: 93

Thrust Bearing (now with pics) Oct 30, 2008 14:36:14 GMT

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Post by qtws on Oct 30, 2008 14:36:14 GMT

yup, what y'all said. I ordered this

Qty Model Products Total (ex)
2 AS.1528 AS1528 Thrust Washer Series AS 15x28x1 mm £1.84
1 AXK.1528 AXK1528 Needle Roller Cage and Roller Assembly 15x28x2mm. .. £2.34
Items Sub Total: £4.18
1st Class Post ( UNITED KINGDOM: 0.3 kg(s)): £1.50
VAT: £0.99
Order Total: £6.67

from simply bearings, plus two plate washers (to take up the wear in the plate in photo #6, if necessary). Still haven't completed the job (pesky day job...), but a new clutch cover gasket was ~£7 from Wemoto. I did this one about two (three?) years ago as well: I got the needle bearing from Fowlers - about £7 or so all in, without plate washers. The simply bearings design of bearing is slightly different from OEM Yam.
cheers,

Nigel

CD Resident Gossip Posts: 13,793	Thrust Bearing (now with pics) Nov 20, 2008 21:04:17 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by CD on Nov 20, 2008 21:04:17 GMT Its worth greasing the clutch release mechanism as you re-assemble it (high temp grease). From the look of things it wasn't getting much lube from the engine oil.
	Biker since 1975. Ex engineer turned chiropractor.

Thrust Bearing (now with pics)

Post by serenaur on May 16, 2008 23:00:26 GMT

Post by neilmud Lord Protector on May 16, 2008 23:20:07 GMT

Post by cam7777 on May 17, 2008 8:48:40 GMT

Post by taint on May 17, 2008 9:34:12 GMT

Post by General Gman on May 19, 2008 8:18:09 GMT

Post by taint on May 19, 2008 8:41:13 GMT

Post by serenaur on May 19, 2008 10:14:43 GMT

Post by General Gman on May 19, 2008 11:53:14 GMT

Post by amorti on May 19, 2008 16:36:45 GMT

Post by amorti on May 19, 2008 16:43:03 GMT

Post by studiverts on Jul 24, 2008 19:14:41 GMT

Post by qtws on Oct 30, 2008 14:36:14 GMT

Post by CD on Nov 20, 2008 21:04:17 GMT